| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
|
 Posted: Fri May 13, 2016 4:09 am Post subject: |
 |
|
Gee, did this thread go way off topic.
Consider the following:
| Quote: |
| While there are still qualified foreigners working in China as ESL instructors, the reality is that the larger number of those who took advantage of the Chinese educational system by faking their credentials have directly contributed to its demise. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
creeper1
Joined: 24 Aug 2010
Posts: 481
Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan
|
| Posted: Fri May 13, 2016 6:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
The article is horsefeces.
Demand is massive. I am turning down work all the time.
It will get even better for native speakers if they really do start denying visas to the non-natives which seemingly they are attempting to do. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jmbf
Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Posts: 663
|
| Posted: Fri May 13, 2016 7:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
| creeper1 wrote: |
demand is massive. I am turning down work all the time.
|
Demand varies a lot depending on a few factors such as location, your own marketability and reputation etc etc. Yes demand is high in some areas but don't think that is universal across all of China.
All in all though I also have problems with a lot of the information in that 'article'. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
OhBudPowellWhereArtThou
Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1168
Location: Since 2003
|
| Posted: Fri May 13, 2016 10:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
| nomad soul wrote: |
Gee, did this thread go way off topic.
Consider the following:
| Quote: |
| While there are still qualified foreigners working in China as ESL instructors, the reality is that the larger number of those who took advantage of the Chinese educational system by faking their credentials have directly contributed to its demise. |
|
I don't think that the cited statement is off topic. It's actually apropos. Over two-thirds of the FTs I've known and worked with demonstrated little to no education beyond the sixth grade. Those who exhibited their "degrees" produced 5"x8" card stock with fancy Gothic lettering from Belford University and JimBob's School of Advanced Edjumacation.
Most didn't even have a TEFL certificate.
So yeah, considering this and administrations' continual exasperation over most phony FTs' behavior and lack of class room skills, I'd say that faked credentials play a large part of it China's dislike for foreign teachers. Most of the older FTs that I've known who arrived in China in their fifties would be living in homeless shelters back home were it not for the Chinese Gravy Train.
I've been asked by adults (before the got to know me) what I really did before I came to China. There's even a lot of skepticism among FAO's. That's why the Ministry of Education is trying to push for the apostillization of degrees. It's a good thing.
However, I think that long-time teachers who possess valid TEFL certs but no degree shouldn't have to go through the apostillization process. Those whom I have known have shown a high degree of ability within the sphere of their responsibilities. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Guerciotti
Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 842
Location: In a sleazy bar killing all the bad guys.
|
| Posted: Fri May 13, 2016 2:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| OhBudPowellWhereArtThou wrote: |
| I don't think that the cited statement is off topic. It's actually apropos. Over two-thirds of the FTs I've known and worked with demonstrated little to no education beyond the sixth grade. Those who exhibited their "degrees" produced 5"x8" card stock with fancy Gothic lettering from Belford University and JimBob's School of Advanced Edjumacation. |
Where, may I ask, do you work? A uni in a 3rd tier city?
The article is a load of bollocks. Read the reddit comments. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
OhBudPowellWhereArtThou
Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1168
Location: Since 2003
|
| Posted: Fri May 13, 2016 4:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Guerciotti,
I work in second-tier cities where it may not be so easy to hire people with bona fide university degrees or people with relevant degrees. I've known my share of geniuses: one guy who at first represented himself (to me-- I don't know what credentials lay in the FAO's office) as a former first grade teacher and school principal with a Ph.D in education. After a few conversations, he downgraded himself to a holder of an MA in history (he didn't say which history). His single "degree" was little more than an 8"x5" hand lettered affair with a not-so-crisp stamp of the school that he supposedly attended. I saw it in his apartment.
Another yoyo was a PH,D in education who spoke in double negatives. He graduated from Belford University, a print shop in Dubai. (Look it up).
Another had a Ph.D in Sino-European relations. She came in soused one night and admitted that she had taken only a few classes in dance and theater. Apparently, the FAO knew about it and was the one who got her the Ph.D degree (which I did not see). I did see her pay voucher for 7800 rmb.
Another brilliant guy had a Ph.D in sociology and spouted things that one would acquire in an undergraduate requisite sociology course (i.e., Max Weber,the founder of "modern" sociology) . When a bona fide Ph.D in the U.S. with the same first name and a last name that was only one letter different from his own name wrote a best-selling book, he dropped the last letter in his name so that he had the same name as the Ph.D who sold the book. The last I heard, he had convinced people that he was the same person.
Another young guy supposedly JUST graduated from college and admittedly had no teaching experience (the city FAO hired him for some reason) but had a TEFL from somewhere in the city, showed up and had absolutely no sense of class room procedure or practice. He spent his entire class time playing board games for a whole year.
Shall I go on? It is these people that China wants to get rid of. The last I heard, all of the people whom I mentioned (except the sociologist) were sent packing. The woman had been in the school for five years! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Shanghai Noon
Joined: 18 Aug 2013
Posts: 589
Location: Shanghai, China
|
| Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 1:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
| OhBudPowellWhereArtThou wrote: |
Guerciotti,
Another yoyo was a PH,D in education who spoke in double negatives. He graduated from Belford University, a print shop in Dubai. (Look it up).
|
Which school do you think is better? Belford, or the University of Antarctica? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Guerciotti
Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 842
Location: In a sleazy bar killing all the bad guys.
|
| Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 2:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
| OhBudPowellWhereArtThou wrote: |
| Shall I go on? It is these people that China wants to get rid of. The last I heard, all of the people whom I mentioned (except the sociologist) were sent packing. The woman had been in the school for five years! |
No, we get it. Some FTs fake their credentials, and Admin gladly creates fake credentials to get an RP for a teacher. However, if they eliminate that supply, perhaps they will have no teachers in second tier cities? Maybe the system shares some of the blame.
Who replaced the FTs who were booted out? Qualified ESL teachers with English degrees and CELTAs?
I cannot blame the FTs only, as implied in that rubbish article, when the schools also create fakes for the teachers. Besides, their English speaking was almost certainly better than the local teacher's English.
Regardless, the article is still an 'it's the foreigner's fault' rant by a clueless backpacker, but it does serve certain interests quite well. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
OhBudPowellWhereArtThou
Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1168
Location: Since 2003
|
| Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 6:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
| bluetortilla wrote: |
Besides, the whole theme of this thread is the the 'golden age' is over. OK- so where shall EFL go next? Doesn't seem to be a whole lot of places left. Keep on the sunny side! |
Back to the west. Where else? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
OhBudPowellWhereArtThou
Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1168
Location: Since 2003
|
| Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 6:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Guerciotti wrote: |
No, we get it. Some FTs fake their credentials, and Admin gladly creates fake credentials to get an RP for a teacher. However, if they eliminate that supply, perhaps they will have no teachers in second tier cities? Maybe the system shares some of the blame.
Who replaced the FTs who were booted out? Qualified ESL teachers with English degrees and CELTAs?
I cannot blame the FTs only, as implied in that rubbish article, when the schools also create fakes for the teachers. Besides, their English speaking was almost certainly better than the local teacher's English.
Regardless, the article is still an 'it's the foreigner's fault' rant by a clueless backpacker, but it does serve certain interests quite well. |
The last I heard, the booted FT at one school was replaced by an educated Arab citizen with a bona fide degree.
You know, I didn't believe that schools could be enablers, but some really are. It makes me sick that this happens and Chinese administrators keep doing it. The local FAO who took on the young guy who had no sense of class room was really PO'd that the City FAO recommended the guy solely to collect the finder's fee. I could never quite unravel the story about how the guy got into China in the first place. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
