Job Discussion Forums

[Monday]

I thought university jobs didn't play many tricks with teachers. But after getting several job offers and looking at many contracts, I find every single school has just been wasting my time. They promise one salary, but when I get the contract, it is lower than what they told me. Or they promise a salary, and a full year of pay, but have very clauses that reduce the salary, so it is really quite a lot of less than what they said initially, sometimes by as much as 50%. I know this is common of private schools, but universities have started this behavior too?

When I last applied for jobs, a few years ago, every contract I saw was a fairly standard SAFEA contract, with no tricks. Just a salary for so many months, and a list of responsibilities and benefits. But now, I haven't seen any normal contract.

Is it just practice now to give a poor contract to test if a foreigner will take it? Do they all expect heavy negotiation from the teachers and so this practice of what appears like lying is just expected here? I feel that I have to ask them to modify half of the wording before the contract begins to look reasonable.

[rogerwilco]

Having you been receiving contracts where the infamous Hangzhou Helen is the agency ?

Most of those contracts will claim a salary of something like 8,000RMB, but when you read the whole contract you will see that the salary is only 5,000, and the remaining 3000 is just BS such as how much they value the apartment.


For example:

"Monthly salary：■Monthly RMB 7,200～7,500～7,700～7900 based on degree and teaching experience （covering basic salary RMB4,500～4,800～5,000～5,200, house rent allowance RMB 2,000, residential allowance RMB 500, insurance allowance and clinic allowance RMB 200)."
http://www.helengroup.com/hotjobs_con.asp?id=390&classid=25

[Monday]

No, I have been communicating with the FAOs directly. When I got the first contract, I just assumed it was a really weird boss who probably prepared this contract as a joke, having no real intention of hiring anyone, as I can't believe anyone would sign such a thing. But now that I have several offers and contracts, I'm finding that some of them lied to me in some way and all of them rewrote the standard contract to favor them entirely. They add extra fines and salary deductions to the contract, and also remove any mention of them ever having to pay a fine if they break the contract.

[rogerwilco]

[OhBudPowellWhereArtThou]

If you receive communication describing a job with one salary but get a copy of a contract with another salary interspersed with weasel words that are not set forth as an addendum, you MAY be dealing not directly with the FAO but a recruiter who acts on behalf of the FAO. I am no longer sure that public universities and colleges are above playing shenanigans. Generally, the younger the FAO, the more prone they are to playing games.

Generally, public universities won't negotiate with an unseen FT. If there's an opening in the verbal (skype, phone) negotiations, be sure that you're dealing with an agent. (You didn't mention it, but I thought I'd throw that in).

[Timer]

Universities aren't above this kind of nonsense. I saw it quite a lot last year when looking for jobs (part of the reason I didn't even bother looking this year). I really think they just hope eventually someone will take their shitty offer. If they can't find someone to fill the position before school starts I guess they shift things around to make do with the teachers they have.

[OhBudPowellWhereArtThou]

My experience with job searches and applications to universities and public institutions is that the recruiters will sometimes low ball a prospective candidate for some reason. (It must benefit them in some way, but I see no point in speculating how). If you are told, "Maybe I can get you a higher salary, that's a dead giveaway that you are dealing with a bad recruiter who has some sort of incentive to recruit FTs cheaply.

My personal experience is that the university won't play around with the advertised contract terms until the FT arrives. It is then that the FT is most likely to be hit with addenda pertaining to converting rmb to USD , curfews, outside work, etc..

You may think that you are dealing with the FAO or some other school official because your emails are answered by someone with a school email address when you are actually dealing with a recruiter. I apply for positions every so often just to see what's out there. If you put your resume up on a public board, you'll attract every slime bag in the recruiting business. They don't care about their reputation because they don't expect to see you or the school again.

If you go with a respectable agency or recruiting group, you can avoid many problems. The way to find such an agency or recruiting group is to ask around and to apply for many jobs just to look at the contracts. When you get a contract that doesn't pass the smell test, or if the interview starts to go south in some way, move on.

There are a lot of jobs out there.

One thing: I've found that the people who find themselves backed into a bad contract are usually those who haven't done enough home work, or they are desperate for a job because they're really not qualified and the recruiter knows it, and the school is just as desperate as the applicant.

I don't know how many contracts you've been sent or how many interviews you've submitted to, but be sure that the more experienced you are with the process, the greater your chances of getting what you thought you bargained for.

Good luck

[Timer]

[OhBudPowellWhereArtThou]

[danshengou]

Probably not a lot of room to negotiate since the pay is pretty low to begin with in most cases. But if you honestly feel you are worth more than the offer, then counter it.

[donkeydonkey]

I have noticed that negotiations have increased as universities have slowly drifted further away from standard Safea contracts. My experience was that the contracts were largely the same and the salary was the main difference in the past. I would now say that University contracts are pretty heavily negotiable. For instance, This semester I asked for an increase in my flight reimbursement. The school told me no way. They could not do it because they could not justify paying me more for flights than other foreign teachers. I countered with can you put the same amount that I was asking for into my salary each month. They replied, yes, of course, we can give it to you in the salary because you have been here longer so that is not a problem. I asked if the could pay me for summer vacation. They said absolutely not. That is only for lifetime professors. So I countered with can you increase my overtime pay from 100 to 200rmb/hr. An increase that is greater than what they would have paid me for summer. They were happy to oblige. In China, asking the right question is always important.

[twowheel]