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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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 Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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How odd - differing interpretations of religious dogma. Whoda thunk it? 
Regards,
John |
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MI6agent
Joined: 16 Apr 2016
Posts: 87
Location: Dark Web
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| Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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[u]
| plumpy nut wrote: |
| Arabia who view the skies have to see the beginning of the crescent before Ramadan begins. I'm assuming this is done without binoculars because that could be deemed un-Islamic. |
As usual, Mr Nut is giving false information about a topic which he has no clue.
"Imam of Makkah said sighting the moon is established in the Sharia, and this principle does not preclude benefiting from modern science and technology as these do not violate the principle nor contradict it. Examples of this include the usage of binoculars and mathematical calculations which assist in realising the sighting of the moon, or tahqeeq al-ru'yah. By this means, conflicting points of view can be unified and disputation lessened.
http://www.central-mosque.com/index.php/Ramadhan/do-saudi-scholars-impose-saudi-moon-sighting-on-non-saudi-residents.html |
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plumpy nut
Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 1652
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| Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| MI6agent wrote: |
[u]
| plumpy nut wrote: |
| Arabia who view the skies have to see the beginning of the crescent before Ramadan begins. I'm assuming this is done without binoculars because that could be deemed un-Islamic. |
As usual, Mr Nut is giving false information about a topic which he has no clue.
"Imam of Makkah said sighting the moon is established in the Sharia, and this principle does not preclude benefiting from modern science and technology as these do not violate the principle nor contradict it. Examples of this include the usage of binoculars and mathematical calculations which assist in realising the sighting of the moon, or tahqeeq al-ru'yah. By this means, conflicting points of view can be unified and disputation lessened.
http://www.central-mosque.com/index.php/Ramadhan/do-saudi-scholars-impose-saudi-moon-sighting-on-non-saudi-residents.html |
Who cares? I was simply quipping about an ignorant group of people and suggesting they might even go as far as to prohibit the use of binoculars in determining if the crescent is visible. Whereas most reasonable cultures just set yearly occasions to a calendar, the Saudis are backwards enough to really on the visual appearance of the moon as determined by Imams. Everybody including myself who has been in Saudi Arabia knows this is true.
Another thing you might consider as well as the other posters and Saudi apologists. If the Saudis arrest and deport a Westerner for not following "there way or as others would put it 'culture', why then cannot Westerners deport at least an equal number of Saudi Muslims for not agreeing with Western ideas and cultures? How about this, any Saudi in the US that thinks that Sharia law stands above Western freedoms and ideas and openly speaks about it gets kicked out. That of course would be if an elected congress agrees to do that. Of course it might be more difficult to do that in the US because American laws are not edicts like in Saudi Arabia. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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"Leaders or those in charge are commanded to employ one of two principles. The first is to sight the moon with the eye. The basis for this doctrine is numerous Prophetic traditions [ahadith]; Abu Hurayrah relates that the Prophet, may Allāh praise and send peace and blessings upon him, said, ‘Fast when you see it (i.e., the moon) and cease fasting when you see it, and if it is hidden or cloudy, complete the counting of Sha’bān as thirty days.’ This hadith is agreed upon by Al-Bukhari and Muslim; similar authentic ahadith are also recorded. The second principle applies only in the absence of the first, which is to complete thirty days for the month of Sha’bān. The basis for this is also the previous hadith and many other similar statements. It is worth noting that the overwhelming majority of scholars unanimously agreed upon using these two principles. Furthermore, it has been stated by a number of scholars that the overwhelming majority of scholars also agreed not to consider astronomy or calculations as a tool to confirm the beginning of Ramadān or ‘Īd.
Scholars who quoted this consensus include al-Jassas al–Hanafi1, al-Baji al-Maliki2 Ibn Rushd al-Maliki3, al-Subki al-Shafi’i, Ibn Taymiyyah5, Ibn ‘Abidin Al-Hanafi6 and others. They added that the effective cause [‘illāh, ratio legis] for confirming these events is the visual sighting of the moon or the completion of the month of Sha’bān. This means that the only basis for fasting is one of these two principles.
It is important to clarify this point further; the Sharῑ’ah in many cases may consider a variety of factors including scientific ones that could have an effect on the ruling. However, the scientific factor may or may not influence the end ruling of the Sharῑ’ah since in some cases it is totally outweighed by other factors to the degree that it appears to be ignored completely. " http://www.islam21c.com/islamic-law/964-an-insight-into-moon-sighting/
Regards,
John |
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sheikh radlinrol
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 1222
Location: Spain
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| Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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| MI6agent wrote: |
| cnthaiksarok wrote: |
Not to be argumentative, but miswak is not always acceptable or...allowed. May depend on region / school / admin. etc.
It's disallowed (during Ramadan) at my Academy.
(absorption from the wood contains minerals, I was told) |
"Many people think you cannot use a miswak or toothbrush during Ramadan. This is false, for the Prophet (peace be upon him) used to use a miswak during Ramadan. Also you CAN use toothpaste; the reasoning by the scholars is that the miswak has flavor, thus toothpaste is okay to use (if you are not eating it)."
Common mistakes while fasting
http://www.arabnews.com/news/457038 |
Laughable! We have brains,sir. Who on earth could swallow this tripe? |
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MI6agent
Joined: 16 Apr 2016
Posts: 87
Location: Dark Web
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| Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| plumpy nut wrote: |
| Another thing you might consider as well as the other posters and Saudi apologists. If the Saudis arrest and deport a Westerner for not following "there way or as others would put it 'culture', why then cannot Westerners deport at least an equal number of Saudi Muslims for not agreeing with Western ideas and cultures? How about this, any Saudi in the US that thinks that Sharia law stands above Western freedoms and ideas and openly speaks about it gets kicked out. That of course would be if an elected congress agrees to do that. Of course it might be more difficult to do that in the US because American laws are not edicts like in Saudi Arabia. |
The Saudis will not arrest or deport a Westerner for not following their culture, but they arrest and deport Westerners if they break the law, and this is what you have agreed and signed when you apply for their visa contract by respecting their laws and their culture. If you do not like it, then don't apply for their visa and do not waste your time going to their country. Simple as drinking water.
No Saudi in the USA has claimed that the Sharia law is above Western freedoms and idea, that is only happening in your hollow brain.
If you do not like the Magic Kingdom, then go to Bangkok. |
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sheikh radlinrol
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 1222
Location: Spain
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| Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| MI6agent wrote: |
| cnthaiksarok wrote: |
Not to be argumentative, but miswak is not always acceptable or...allowed. May depend on region / school / admin. etc.
It's disallowed (during Ramadan) at my Academy.
(absorption from the wood contains minerals, I was told) |
"Many people think you cannot use a miswak or toothbrush during Ramadan. This is false, for the Prophet (peace be upon him) used to use a miswak during Ramadan. Also you CAN use toothpaste; the reasoning by the scholars is that the miswak has flavor, thus toothpaste is okay to use (if you are not eating it)."
Common mistakes while fasting
http://www.arabnews.com/news/457038 |
Check out 13, 14 and 15. You´ll laugh your arse off. |
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MI6agent
Joined: 16 Apr 2016
Posts: 87
Location: Dark Web
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| Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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It seems your brain is not set at the same frequency as the topic of Arabnews.
It is better to stick to El Correo or Al Pais.  |
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sheikh radlinrol
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 1222
Location: Spain
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| Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| MI6agent wrote: |
It seems your brain is not set at the same frequency as the topic of Arabnews.
It is better to stick to El Correo or Al Pais. |
You´ve lost me.  |
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