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SinaloaPaisa
Joined: 27 Sep 2015
Posts: 33
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 Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 2:07 am Post subject: Coming from Korea. Clarity on the VN ESL Scene |
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Greetings,
Wondering if some experienced VN people could clarify some things.
Background: BA, Teaching License (USA), 3 yrs exp teaching ESL in Korea
Plan to come to HCM after my work finishes up in Korea.
Due to timing of my arrival not sure if I can procure an International School job so planning for having to teach ESL.
How long does typically take to find a job assuming one if sending emails and knocking on doors everyday?
I know some of the better schools and institutes require a CELTA or TEFL, but would my experience and teaching license be sufficient to get hired at those places?
What is the typical job, schedule and hours like? I am assuming it is not like Korea as I hear many people work multiple jobs.
What is the best banking set up nowadays? In another thread I heard someone mention ACB. Seems if you get a work permit it is easier or handled by your school. If no work permit, do most schools just pay you cash and is that even taxed?
Any advice much appreciated. Cheers |
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sigmoid
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 1276
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| Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 1:16 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Plan to come to HCM after my work finishes up in Korea.
Due to timing of my arrival not sure if I can procure an International School job so planning for having to teach ESL.
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AFAIK, there aren't many fully-accredited international schools in HCMC or the rest of VN. You should certainly contact them asap because an opening could occur most any time.
There are numerous unaccredited "international" schools as well.
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| How long does typically take to find a job assuming one if sending emails and knocking on doors everyday? |
Demand is high. You should receive offers almost immediately. Of course, they won't necessarily be the jobs you want. Things slow down for EFL around Nov - April though.
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| I know some of the better schools and institutes require a CELTA or TEFL, but would my experience and teaching license be sufficient to get hired at those places? |
Those schools may pay more but will also be more demanding and corporate. Some are strict but others flexible. If they need someone, they'll likely make an exception.
As with many places, success depends on a lot on your personality and social skills more than your qualifications.
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| What is the typical job, schedule and hours like? I am assuming it is not like Korea as I hear many people work multiple jobs. |
Most of the work is evenings and weekends. The big market is kids and then IELTS. There are some public schools jobs if you want to get day-time hours but that kind of work can be quite stressful.
In the end, your schedule is mostly up to you and may often change. Yes, most people teach at a couple different schools, but maybe you can set up in district 7 and just teach Koreans privately, for example. There are many Koreans living in suburban HCMC.
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| What is the best banking set up nowadays? In another thread I heard someone mention ACB. Seems if you get a work permit it is easier or handled by your school. If no work permit, do most schools just pay you cash and is that even taxed? |
Not sure is ACB is the "best" but it is easy to open an account there and their service is good.
Yes, many schools still pay in cash.
Anyway, for the most part, teaching in VN is about the freedom to do what you want. Teach a lot, teach a little, take a break, come back, change schools, teach kids, teach corporate, teach privates, teach online, become an IELTS examiner, etc.
It's also about living with millions of people and millions of motorbikes if you're living in HCMC. if you can do that, then the rest usually falls into place. |
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ExpatLuke
Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 744
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| Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 7:00 am Post subject: |
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The above post is pretty much spot on. Qualifications tend to only matter for management positions. For teaching positions, most schools won't see a difference between a CELTA and a lesser known certificate. Some places won't put much stock in online certificates, however.
Coming from Korea, a lot of teachers struggle with the accepted levels of professionalism in Vietnam. It's completely different here. You need to be much more flexible, even at the top schools.
On a side note, the Singapore International School in Danang is currently looking for a full-time primary teacher (must have a degree in primary education). It's possibly one of the best Jobs in the country. |
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Spelunker
Joined: 03 Nov 2013
Posts: 392
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| Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:54 am Post subject: re: primary education |
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| On a side note, the Singapore International School in Danang is currently looking for a full-time primary teacher (must have a degree in primary education). It's possibly one of the best Jobs in the country. |
In Hong Kong jobs like the PNET seem to require you to be a qualified primary teacher in say, the UK. But they do seem to have lower pay grades and accept say a degree related to ESL and a TEFL. Is the degree in primary education a prerequisite? |
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LarssonCrew
Joined: 06 Jun 2009
Posts: 1308
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| Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:41 am Post subject: |
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Luke are you saying Vietnam has less standards than Korea or that they expect more?
I know in Korea it's often a 'take my life and my soul with 11 hours a day in school' deal, and it seems Vietnam is pretty chill with people having one class this day here one there etc. |
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Spelunker
Joined: 03 Nov 2013
Posts: 392
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| Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:50 am Post subject: re: viet |
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| This is a good point that needs clearing up....the only thing I don't like Viet is the strict rules and faffing about with the visas...seems too much like China to me on that score. |
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LarssonCrew
Joined: 06 Jun 2009
Posts: 1308
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| Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Strict rules? It looks much more backpacker / laid back and almost all jobs seem to pay within $16-20 range, so there cannot be too much want for a better standard of teacher. |
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SinaloaPaisa
Joined: 27 Sep 2015
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| ExpatLuke wrote: |
The above post is pretty much spot on. Qualifications tend to only matter for management positions. For teaching positions, most schools won't see a difference between a CELTA and a lesser known certificate. Some places won't put much stock in online certificates, however.
Coming from Korea, a lot of teachers struggle with the accepted levels of professionalism in Vietnam. It's completely different here. You need to be much more flexible, even at the top schools.
On a side note, the Singapore International School in Danang is currently looking for a full-time primary teacher (must have a degree in primary education). It's possibly one of the best Jobs in the country. |
I do not have a CELTA or TEFL. Mine is an actual teaching license from the states. Not related to ESL / English.
Can you expand on the "expected levels of professionalism" comment?
Just how big of a down turn is in before and after Tiet holiday?
Is it you simply have to look a bit harder and longer or is it plan to be out of work for 1-3 months?
I am either gonna come in October or March. Haven't decided yet. |
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Spelunker
Joined: 03 Nov 2013
Posts: 392
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| Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 12:51 pm Post subject: re: about the work permit |
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| so there cannot be too much want for a better standard of teacher. |
larsoncrewposter, I don't have a UK no criminal record check, because I do not currently have a UK address...my brother resides in a house that half belongs to me, but he will not let me stay/visit there/use it as a care of address. So hope that clarifies! Therefore, no check, means no work permit in Viet....it's a crock of shit, but it is what it is.....Taiwan and HK....no check required!!!! |
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LarssonCrew
Joined: 06 Jun 2009
Posts: 1308
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| Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Just work on a tourist visa |
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Spelunker
Joined: 03 Nov 2013
Posts: 392
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| Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 1:24 pm Post subject: re: legality |
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| A fair point, but legally, would you have a leg to stand on, should you be found out? I'd rather not have a stay in the Hanoi Hilton:( |
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sigmoid
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 1276
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:54 am Post subject: |
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| I do not have a CELTA or TEFL. Mine is an actual teaching license from the states. Not related to ESL / English. |
Again, don't worry about it. If you're here, sober and wearing clothes, you're gonna find some work. If you teach kids, you need to be not boring. Alternatively, you should be an IELTS guru.
Or, focus on private tuition, or just get a full-time job in your field, which will likely happen eventually.
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| Can you expand on the "expected levels of professionalism" comment? |
I believe he means the accepted LOW levels of professionalism. Schools need you to be flexible in terms of your schedule with a lot of last minute changes, poor quality/inappropriate materials, mixed levels, you name it...
The important thing is to turn it to your advantage, which is why most prefer working at several different schools. If you're not happy somewhere, then you can dump them in favor of a better place.
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Just how big of a down turn is in before and after Tiet holiday?
Is it you simply have to look a bit harder and longer or is it plan to be out of work for 1-3 months?
I am either gonna come in October or March. Haven't decided yet. |
It's not a big downturn during Tết, but schools are closed for about 2 weeks. That part is certain. So, if you're teaching by the hour, then you have a couple of low-income months. You just need to include it in your financial plans as a time when you will have less money coming in and will likely need to dip into your savings a bit. |
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ExpatLuke
Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 744
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 5:41 am Post subject: |
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| SinaloaPaisa wrote: |
I do not have a CELTA or TEFL. Mine is an actual teaching license from the states. Not related to ESL / English.
Can you expand on the "expected levels of professionalism" comment?
Just how big of a down turn is in before and after Tiet holiday?
Is it you simply have to look a bit harder and longer or is it plan to be out of work for 1-3 months?
I am either gonna come in October or March. Haven't decided yet. |
What I meant about professionalism, is that Vietnam is considered a lot less professional than Korea. A lot of teachers come here expecting it to be like a developed country in terms of company infrastructure, and it's simply not. Vietnamese do things last minute, don't plan ahead, ignore the small details, etc. A lot of teachers who come from Korea get completely turned off by that and aren't very happy here.
In terms of your degree, I think you need to be careful. Unless your diploma specifically says "Education" on it, you will need a TEFL certificate to back it up. Or be able to provide your transcripts. Either way, it complicates the work permit process in some ways, so some schools won't want to deal with it. I'd suggest getting a TESOL certificate in addition to your degree, as teaching English is actually very different than Elementary Education. |
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skarper
Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 477
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:26 am Post subject: |
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It can certainly be a shock just how disorganized everything is in the EFL field in Vietnam.
Even the better places will mix levels, provide inadequate outdated materials [and often insist you use them]. Too many students in a class is also an issue with almost 20 common.
The students - while often motivated and sincere - can be very passive. They will sit quietly and wait for the teacher to teach. You also get quite a few rich kids who will make no effort but expect a high mark anyway.
This is not unique to Vietnam or even Asia but a lot of what TEFL is about - learner independence, pair work, group work is hard to put into practice and you will get ZERO help or even understanding from your employers.
Often you get teens who will come in late repeatedly, use their phones constantly and speak in Vietnamese throughout your lesson. Don't expect any system to deal with this as they are paying customers and may even be kids of some VIP.
There are certainly great students of all ages who can make it worthwhile - but it is not all smiling faces eager to learn who respect the teachers... |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 7:36 am Post subject: Re: Coming from Korea. Clarity on the VN ESL Scene |
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| SinaloaPaisa wrote: |
| Background: BA, Teaching License (USA), 3 yrs exp teaching ESL in Korea. |
I recall your US teaching license is for secondary math. What is your degree major? |
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