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Brunouno
Joined: 18 Apr 2013
Posts: 129
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 Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:55 am Post subject: |
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You really are doing yourself and your qualifications a disservice by entering such a market. Unless you enjoying working 6 days a week, which is the norm in Vietnam for most (not only teachers), pandering to your boss (also the norm in Vietnam) and putting up with the other rubbish that others have written about in this thread, then I doubt it's going to be a pleasant experience for you.
With your qualifications, you could easily get a job paying 20,000 yuan plus accommodation, long holidays and other perks in China. You're only punishing yourself by working in such a setting for 20 bucks an hour.
I've worked in both countries, and just thought I'd chime in with my experiences. |
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LarssonCrew
Joined: 06 Jun 2009
Posts: 1308
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| But in China you put up with the xenophobia, the unbelievable pollution, the red tape, the lack of fast external internet, the high price on any goods which are good quality, the fake food, the poor hygiene etc. I know some may also be prevalent in Vietnam but the Chinese are king! |
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Brunouno
Joined: 18 Apr 2013
Posts: 129
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| LarssonCrew wrote: |
| But in China you put up with the xenophobia, the unbelievable pollution, the red tape, the lack of fast external internet, the high price on any goods which are good quality, the fake food, the poor hygiene etc. I know some may also be prevalent in Vietnam but the Chinese are king! |
All of what you say is true, but I would take 20,000 yuan, 3 months of paid holidays and free accommodation any day over 20 bucks an hour with no perks. I have no regrets about leaving Nam, but I must admit that I miss the food there 
I'm not trying to make it a competition of Vietnam Versus China. I was just trying to say that there are better pastures out there for the OP with such qualifications. |
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skarper
Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 477
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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Frankly the OP would be better off just staying in Korea and working up towards a university job. His profile is a poor fit for Vietnam and indeed Vietnam is not all that great a place to live/work. I like it but I'm atypical in many ways.
I would not be attracted by China - pollution etc being the key negative. |
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SinaloaPaisa
Joined: 27 Sep 2015
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| ExpatLuke wrote: |
| SinaloaPaisa wrote: |
I do not have a CELTA or TEFL. Mine is an actual teaching license from the states. Not related to ESL / English.
Can you expand on the "expected levels of professionalism" comment?
Just how big of a down turn is in before and after Tiet holiday?
Is it you simply have to look a bit harder and longer or is it plan to be out of work for 1-3 months?
I am either gonna come in October or March. Haven't decided yet. |
What I meant about professionalism, is that Vietnam is considered a lot less professional than Korea. A lot of teachers come here expecting it to be like a developed country in terms of company infrastructure, and it's simply not. Vietnamese do things last minute, don't plan ahead, ignore the small details, etc. A lot of teachers who come from Korea get completely turned off by that and aren't very happy here.
In terms of your degree, I think you need to be careful. Unless your diploma specifically says "Education" on it, you will need a TEFL certificate to back it up. Or be able to provide your transcripts. Either way, it complicates the work permit process in some ways, so some schools won't want to deal with it. I'd suggest getting a TESOL certificate in addition to your degree, as teaching English is actually very different than Elementary Education. |
My license says "State of Florida Department of Education / Professional Educator's Certificate"
I have been teaching English in Korea for 3 years.
Just got my teacher's license for public schools in the US and International Schools abroad. |
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SinaloaPaisa
Joined: 27 Sep 2015
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:36 pm Post subject: Re: Coming from Korea. Clarity on the VN ESL Scene |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| SinaloaPaisa wrote: |
| Background: BA, Teaching License (USA), 3 yrs exp teaching ESL in Korea. |
I recall your US teaching license is for secondary math. What is your degree major? |
Licensed 6-9th grade. Planning to add the 6-12th license this year or next.
Degree is in business. |
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SinaloaPaisa
Joined: 27 Sep 2015
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Brunouno wrote: |
You really are doing yourself and your qualifications a disservice by entering such a market. Unless you enjoying working 6 days a week, which is the norm in Vietnam for most (not only teachers), pandering to your boss (also the norm in Vietnam) and putting up with the other rubbish that others have written about in this thread, then I doubt it's going to be a pleasant experience for you.
With your qualifications, you could easily get a job paying 20,000 yuan plus accommodation, long holidays and other perks in China. You're only punishing yourself by working in such a setting for 20 bucks an hour.
I've worked in both countries, and just thought I'd chime in with my experiences. |
Most schools have already filled positions for this upcoming school year.
This is just for 6-12 months while I wait for the next school year. Looking to work 20 hours a week and enjoy living in SEA for a bit. |
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SinaloaPaisa
Joined: 27 Sep 2015
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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Guys,
If I come in October id have 3,500 or a little more. I send 200 a month back home for bills.
Would 3,500 dollars be safe and comfortable start up money? |
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SinaloaPaisa
Joined: 27 Sep 2015
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| skarper wrote: |
Frankly the OP would be better off just staying in Korea and working up towards a university job. His profile is a poor fit for Vietnam and indeed Vietnam is not all that great a place to live/work. I like it but I'm atypical in many ways.
I would not be attracted by China - pollution etc being the key negative. |
I am transitioning out of ESL and into International Schools.
Vietnam is gonna be the last ESL work I do. Only planning on staying in Nam 6-12 months.
After that it's off to China or Middle East. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| SinaloaPaisa wrote: |
I am transitioning out of ESL and into International Schools.
Vietnam is gonna be the last ESL work I do. Only planning on staying in Nam 6-12 months.
After that it's off to China or Middle East. |
China is a realistic destination for you. Your qualifications won't be enough for international schools in the Mid East unless you plan to get a math-related degree and complete 2 or 3 years of US teaching experience. |
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Spelunker
Joined: 03 Nov 2013
Posts: 392
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:27 pm Post subject: re: agreed |
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| Teaching maths in the wealthier gulf countries, requires relevant experience at home and the certificate and so on. |
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SinaloaPaisa
Joined: 27 Sep 2015
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| SinaloaPaisa wrote: |
I am transitioning out of ESL and into International Schools.
Vietnam is gonna be the last ESL work I do. Only planning on staying in Nam 6-12 months.
After that it's off to China or Middle East. |
China is a realistic destination for you. Your qualifications won't be enough for international schools in the Mid East unless you plan to get a math-related degree and complete 2 or 3 years of US teaching experience. |
Not quite.
ME and China are known in the IS community as regions/countries for newbs.
I know two people working in the ME who did the same program I did with unrelated degrees and no experience. One actually in the same cohort.
One is working in Kuwait and the other is working in Qatar. They are not working at any of the elite 1st tier schools. However, they are more than satisfied with their package and salary.
Every country has 3 levels of International Schools. 1st tier, 2nd tier, and 3rd tier.
3rd tier - some accept teachers without any teaching license or experience. these schools are trying to get accreditation and are maybe operating as a bilingual school (I was offered a job at a 3rd tier school in Colombia to teach English Literature something I have zero experience in or any license for with no related degree)
2nd tier - need a license. prefer experience but not a must, especially in undesirable locations
1st tier - need a license. generally for the most part need experience + good references. (might can skirt this if you know someone at the school with influence or decision making power)
Related degree is def not required. Basically only important starting out when you have no experience or references. The schools that would care wouldn't hire you anyways as a newb. Once you get some experience and prove you can teach it and be successful even the 1st tier schools won't care.
Once you have a license it all comes down to
1) who you know
2) experience
3) references
4) luck |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| SinaloaPaisa wrote: |
I know two people working in the ME who did the same program I did with unrelated degrees and no experience. One actually in the same cohort.
One is working in Kuwait and the other is working in Qatar. They are not working at any of the elite 1st tier schools. However, they are more than satisfied with their package and salary.
....
1st tier - need a license. generally for the most part need experience + good references. (might can skirt this if you know someone at the school with influence or decision making power)
Related degree is def not required. Basically only important starting out when you have no experience or references. The schools that would care wouldn't hire you anyways as a newb. Once you get some experience and prove you can teach it and be successful even the 1st tier schools won't care.
Once you have a license it all comes down to
1) who you know
2) experience
3) references
4) luck |
Luck is right. Or maybe, something like the miracle on 34th Street is needed. Be aware that the better/true international schools --- those with US, UK, Canadian... accreditation --- have to adhere to a specific set of standards in order to maintain that status as well as satisfy parents' expectations. For uniformity, accreditation usually addresses curriculum/assessment core benchmarks, school operations, financial reporting, governance/leadership, non-teaching staffing, resources, faculty qualifications/experience, continuing professional development, etc. (Accreditation is also why there aren't BA holders teaching bachelor's, master's, and doctoral degree programs in the US.)
The point is, references (which everyone has), experience in a low-level mediocre bilingual school in Asia, zero professional development, and a bunch of Hail Marys aren't going to be enough to move up to the better, accredited schools in the GCC. And don't count on wasta. (Just had a similar "discussion" over on the Hong Kong forum.)
By the way, I'm curious about how your two former classmates are faring. Kuwait is uber expensive with a cost of living that's higher than the US. Qatar's COL is slightly below the US; however, rents are sky high and utilities aren't budget friendly. |
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SinaloaPaisa
Joined: 27 Sep 2015
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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Ive been researching and networking the IS scene since 2011. Read and post on the ISR forum as well.
Not quite as hard or stringent as you are making it. There is no set in stone guidelines.
I always see questions like "What are my chances etc etc"
As a general rule of thumb
So long as you have a license and are not picky about school or location, you will find a job. Math and science teachers have more leeway as those licenses are harder to find compared to say primary teachers and social studies.
The good locations are gonna be harder than the bad locations. i.e. Switzerland vs Kuwait for example
Newb teachers with no experience usually start out in lower tier schools or good schools in unpleasant locations that more experienced teachers will avoid esp ones with families. China and the ME are usually very good starting points. No I don't mean the elite schools in Hong Kong, Shanghai, Beijing, Dubai, Abu Dhabi etc.
Don't fear though, after you get those first 2 years under your belt (hopefully with good references) you can move up to better schools and better locations.
As for your question Nomad Soul, those guys are doing good, well, beside the boredom. One of them the school provides free housing and the other gets a housing stipend that covers a large portion of his rent. They don't live in the center of town. One of them lives on the outskirts of town but the school provides a shuttle bus. They don't do much and just stay home most the time. Both are trying to save money so they cook a lot for themselves. Gotta try to find a way to keep yourself entertained on the cheap which aint easy. But they say it helps to look at their bank account each month. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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| SinaloaPaisa wrote: |
I always see questions like "What are my chances etc etc"
As a general rule of thumb
So long as you have a license and are not picky about school or location, you will find a job. Math and science teachers have more leeway as those licenses are harder to find compared to say primary teachers and social studies.
Newb teachers with no experience usually start out in lower tier schools or good schools in unpleasant locations that more experienced teachers will avoid esp ones with families. China and the ME are usually very good starting points. No I don't mean the elite schools in Hong Kong, Shanghai, Beijing, Dubai, Abu Dhabi etc.
Don't fear though, after you get those first 2 years under your belt (hopefully with good references) you can move up to better schools and better locations. |
I'm curious as to what you believe "experience" should entail. In other words, references aside, what specific experience do you expect to bring employers at the better schools?
Similarly, from The International Educator (TIE):Education Requirements
International Schools are looking for teachers who hold a Bachelor’s degree or higher in their subject area. Therefore, if you are planning to teach Social Studies at the middle or high school level, you should have a degree in history, political science, anthropology, sociology or any of the other social sciences. The same applies for secondary teachers of English, Mathematics, Science and other subjects. Elementary school teachers should hold a degree in education, childhood development, or other related subjects.
Experience
Is overseas teaching experience required to get hired by an international school? No, you need not have taught overseas before! But you do need a minimum of two years of teaching experience before you can teach at an international school. Contrary to a common misperception, teaching abroad is not the place to learn how to teach and to get your first experience running a classroom. International schools are looking for proven performers who can hit the ground running and are capable of managing their own classroom independently.
And from a top int'l school in Qatar:For faculty positions, preference is given to candidates with advanced degrees, certification, at least two years of experience in an accredited elementary or secondary school and experience in teaching the specific subject area for which they are applying. All teaching candidates must have an undergraduate degree. Transcripts are reviewed for breadth and depth of courses taken, as well as scholarships.
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