Job Discussion Forums :: View topic - Question about a degree

Get TEFL Certified & Start Your Adventure Today!

Teach English Abroad and Get Paid to see the World!

Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"

FAQ

Memberlist

Usergroups

Profile

Question about a degree
Goto page Previous 1, 2

Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Saudi Arabia

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author

Message

hash

Joined: 17 Dec 2014
Posts: 456
Location: Wadi Jinn

Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 5:40 pm Post subject:

sheikh radlinrol wrote:

Interesting statistics. Where did you find them? Perhaps you could provide a link.

No problem....First. I'll provide a quote and then the link.

".....The data suggest that after just five years, between 40 and 50 percent of all beginning teachers have left the profession. Why do beginning teachers leave at such high rates?"

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.182.106&rep=rep1&type=pdf

------->>There are countless similar sources on the internet.<<---------

The "data" for my 10 year statistic is mostly based on personal observation. And I was being kind. Needless to say, in KSA the dropout rate for ESL teachers after 10 years is closer to 100% .

hash

Joined: 17 Dec 2014
Posts: 456
Location: Wadi Jinn

Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 6:08 pm Post subject:

nomad soul wrote:

hash wrote:

I often advice people in your situation the following

"Advice" them? Shocked

Anyway... Online degrees from US-accredited universities aren't problematic as you claim for employment in the US. If anything, experience carries more weight than just the degree alone.

1- I meant to say, of course, "I often give advice to people......". Thanks for catching the error. I'm surprised you took the trouble. I thought you yourself had dropped out of teaching several years ago.

2. As far as your comment re online degrees and employment, the situation is not as rosy as you'd like us to believe. See

"Overall our findings suggest that online education is indeed a technological advance that can succeed in cutting the costs of a college degree. But preliminary evidence suggests that – at least for the time being – the new technology comes at a cost of quality: it does not produce a product perceived by employers to be as good as one from the traditional, more expensive mode of production."

Full article at:

http://voxeu.org/article/disruptive-potential-online-learning

------>There are countless articles online pretty much saying the same thing<-----

Bottom line: It's not whether in fact online is as good as traditional.....it's whether EMPLOYERS PERCEIVE online to be NOT AS GOOD as traditional that's the important point. According to this article, employers prefer traditional over online....and that was my point in my posting.

sheikh radlinrol

Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 1222
Location: Spain

Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 6:24 pm Post subject:

hash wrote:

sheikh radlinrol wrote:

Interesting statistics. Where did you find them? Perhaps you could provide a link.

Yes, but the link you provide refers to teaching in the USA. This is the Saudi board. Where do you get the stuff about nearly 100% dropout rate for Saudi teachers?

nomad soul

Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world

Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 7:39 pm Post subject:

hash wrote:

As far as your comment re online degrees and employment, the situation is not as rosy as you'd like us to believe. See "Overall our findings suggest that online education is indeed a technological advance that can succeed in cutting the costs of a college degree. But preliminary evidence suggests that – at least for the time being – the new technology comes at a cost of quality: it does not produce a product perceived by employers to be as good as one from the traditional, more expensive mode of production." Full article at: http://voxeu.org/article/disruptive-potential-online-learning
....

Bottom line: It's not whether in fact online is as good as traditional.....it's whether EMPLOYERS PERCEIVE online to be NOT AS GOOD as traditional that's the important point. According to this article, employers prefer traditional over online....and that was my point in my posting.

However, you lumped all US online degrees together. Yet the researchers in that article clearly pointed to for-profit, private university online qualifications as the problem:

Quote:

We find that for business job vacancies (the largest group of job postings) that require a bachelor’s degree, employers strongly prefer applicants with degrees from (nonselective or selective) public institutions as opposed to applicants with degrees from for-profits. The biggest callback ‘penalty’ is imposed on the applicants with an online for-profit degree.

What they don't mention are the requisite competencies and experience for those vacancies, exclusive of the degrees; employers don't focus on just the applicant's education.

Regardless, in terms of the OP's plans, he/she was made aware of KSA's issue with degrees w/online coursework.

1st Sgt Welsh

Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 946
Location: Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei

Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 6:58 am Post subject:

hash wrote:

I often advice people in your situation the following:

If "teaching", and especially teaching ESL abroad.... is just a GIG for you....if it's just something you don't mind doing for a while until what you really want to do presents itself, then go for the quickest and cheapest degree you can, including an online degree.

If you're into teaching for the long haul, as a true teacher/professional, then get the solidest degree you can, which DOESN'T include an online degree. Even today in the USA, many employers look askance at online work, despite all the hoopla surrounding this type of training.

If an employer has a choice, he'll always choose the job applicant with the "traditional" degree. No one will admit this, but that's what really happens.

So again, if you're in "education" for keeps, get the best solidest degree you can. Maybe in 10, 20 years, online will equal traditional education....but that simply isn't the case yet.....at least in "education".

Why get a qualification that will always disadvantage you. Do you want to spend your career "wondering" if an employer will accept your online qualification or not?

Also remember, the vast majority (over 50%) of new teachers in any given year don't stay in the profession more than 5 years once they actually start teaching and find out what it's really like. After 10 years, I think the dropout rate is close to 80% . Be realistic in this regard.

Thanks, hash. Interesting post. Maybe things are a bit different in the States. I studied my degree via distance education in Australia and I can't say that I've ever experienced any lack of recognition for it, or even suspected it of occurring. The only real discrimination against online learning I know of is in a handful of Gulf countries, like Saudi, and, even then, that seems more to do with state regulations than because of requirements made by private employers. In my experience, most places seem to regard a degree from a decent university, whether obtained externally or internally, as a degree from a decent university. No problems.

Besides, most of the people who study via distance education are working at the same time, often full-time. To me, completing a degree under those circumstances demonstrates a solid work ethic, commitment and good time management. Traits that are highly desirable in the workplace. I say that as a person who used to hire people. However, that wasn't in an education field, and, like, I said, I'm not an American so, if you say things are different in the U.S.A., then OK.

In regards to the 'teacher burnout' rates you mentioned, that sadly seems pretty common throughout the West and it's definitely disquieting. I've spoken to quite a few teachers about it and I think a lot of the blame can be placed at the door of the various governments. From what I hear, teachers are often forced to waste hours every week chasing their tails completing pointless paperwork in order to keep the bureaucrats happy. That's not why people become teachers and, personally, I don't blame those who get fed up with it and vote with their feet.

Display posts from previous:

	Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Saudi Arabia	All times are GMT Goto page Previous 1, 2
Page 2 of 2

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Teaching Jobs in China