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Blacklisted: Guangdong Ocean University, Zhanjiang, China
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LarssonCrew



Joined: 06 Jun 2009
Posts: 1308

PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've found that sometimes the FAO and the liason was the same person.

In smaller operations [I Was the only foreign teacher at a middle school with around 12 classes per level and 60 in each, so around 2000 students], and the FAO and the liason was the same person. She hired me, and was my go to, she gave me the schedule, she'd tell me any changes to the classes, when classrooms wouldn't be available, and also handed my pay and things like that.
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Jackie Chan's Double



Joined: 13 Jul 2016
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, ideally that is what they are supposed to do.

The FAO Director was always jet setting around the world every week, supposedly to recruit new students. The entire office was either too busy to answer emails/phone calls or simply to talk to FTs in person.

Party officials always seem to get additional perks to the job besides taking naps during the day and having their student assistants do their work for them.

Despite the intense year round international recruiting effort by the FAO, there were only two foreign students, one from Ghana and one from Pakistan.
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Spatula City



Joined: 28 Jul 2015
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 6:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Blacklisted: Guangdong Ocean University, Zhanjiang, Chin Reply with quote

These seem like legit concerns to me:

Jackie Chan's Double wrote:
Hopefully you enjoy having 80+ students per class. Yes, they double the classes to avoid paying overtime. Reread your contract, there is no mention of overtime in it. No mention of class size, no mention of double classes. They write a general contract and sucker new ppl into signing it and then will screw you over big time when you get here. It has happened multiple times to other co-workers.

Our apartments were the worst univ housing around. Old Mao era housing which is infested with mold, leaking, if it smells like new paint, it is because there was black mold in your apt. and they painted over it without removing the mold and fixing the crap roof. Cockroaches, unidentified roaches, mosquitoes and large spiders everywhere inside.

GDOU mainly uses university recruiters to rein in foreign teachers and then the recruiters try to extort and blackmail the teachers; ie. Their leading weirdo recruiter, asked multiple times for money from foreign teachers for "mom's cancer treatments", GDOU continues to deal with this unprofessional and corrupt recruiter even after bringing it to their attention. Additionally, GDOU's recruiter threatened to pass on and sell private teacher info to third parties, try to destroy teaching career by threatening to spread rumors if the teacher refuses to give the recruiter money for their "mom's cancer treatment's".

Some years ago there were court cases against GDOU for failure to pay salaries, airfare allowance, etc. among other things.

There is a massive lack of communication from GDOU on every level. The English Department assigned a Chinese teacher to be the liaison between the admin and the foreigners, despite the fact this particular person said openly she doesn’t like foreigners. She is incompetent on every level, gave wrong messages to teachers, etc.


1. I think people should know how big their classes are going to be before they start teaching, but I'm not sure if you actually asked about it before you accepted the job or if they lied to you, so I can't say for sure if it's really a negative on their part.

2. The bad apartments sound all too familiar... but it's not necessarily malicious on their part so much as due to climate issues that everyone has merely come to accept as given. Still, it's something that people should know about in case they have allergies.

3. This sounds pretty dodgy, but it's not really about the school so much as the recruiter... so why not post the recruiter's details instead of the school's?

4. Court cases is a serious concern... people deserve to be paid.

5. I hate people like that. But I have noticed a general trend towards racist proclamations like that among workers whose job is to entertain an endless list of complaints from the foreign staff. Foreigners can complain about trivial things without realizing just how much of a baby they're being. You need to be sensitive to this... and while racism isn't something that you should tolerate, you do need to appreciate that when you job is listening to endless negativity, it affects you. This of course isn't a valid excuse to not do your job properly.

These things are par for the course and don't help your case:

Jackie Chan's Double wrote:
I used to be a teacher at GDOU. Initially I was told I’d be teaching General Oral English, after I arrived they assigned me Business English and History to English majors. Other teachers were outsourced to non English departments where the students’ English ability was that of a 5th grader. If students failed the course, the univ would ask the teacher to pass the students anyway so GDOU wouldn’t lose face and drop in univ rankings even further.

GDOU doesn’t rotate classes between teachers, ie. a couple from Kentucky who have taught the same subjects of Oral English and Writing the last 5+ years (a redneck couple who are the sleaziest people on earth. For our Halloween party they told their students to BUY THEIR OWN HALLOWEEN candy! They collected the candy in class and handed it back to the students through trick or treating. Halloween reached a new low last year. They tell students how poor they are and ask students to buy them gifts despite the fact they have two salaries, they are always out looking for gossip to discredit other foreigners, they also hire students to do their final exam grades) .

Hopefully you know how to read Chinese because you will get ZERO support from the administration. Your class schedule will be 100% in Chinese, your roster 100% Chinese, you will be asked to enter grades into a 100% Chinese language database after clicking on 15 links in Chinese, which by the way crashes every semester among other things. Don’t open any attachments the admin sends you as they have viruses on it. Yes, this is China, however most foreigners aren’t fluent in the local language and if you ask for help from the English Department you will be ignored and if you’re lucky to get their attention, the English Dept. administration will yell at you in Chinese. If you ask for help from the International Office, they will either ignore you (as is the usual case, especially with the Director) or tell you to talk to the English Dept.


I'm not saying that these things are acceptable, but they seem par for the course at no-tier unis and apparently public unis as well.

I was also 'outsourced' and yes, it was pretty boring... but it's not the end of the world. I had a student who didn't attend a single class and another who did nothing all year (and I really don't ask for that much)... I gave them both zeroes for their final marks but I'm sure they just pushed them through.

Yes, everything is in Chinese-- it's because you're in China. It's annoying at first, but if you don't have Chinese friends there are numerous translation programs available. You know it's a schedule, so ask yourself what usually appears on a schedule and go from there. The online stuff can be cut and pasted into bing translator which should give you some vague sense of what it all means... and usually the teachers collaborate in order to figure it all out.

It took me a while to figure it out too, but different departments deal with different concerns. The English department deals with teaching-related matters, the other is supposed to deal with housing, salary, etc. If you go to one department with the wrong type of concern, they will steer you to the other department.

***

I'm not saying these aren't annoyances, but some of them are definitely more related to the specific university while others are not. It would be a stronger review if you focused on the legit concerns and didn't bring up the other stuff, because it makes you sound like you're just naive about what it's like to work at a college in China.
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Jackie Chan's Double



Joined: 13 Jul 2016
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Outsourcing teachers lowers the univ's credibility as it undermines the quality of the English majors' education. GDOU instead has Chinese teachers "teaching" Oral English classes who told students to memorize passages of the bible saying it is western culture and memorizing a CNN news transcript.
Foreigners aren't allowed to teach western culture, despite the fact that language in itself is one aspect of culture.

2. Bing translator isn't the best nor is any other online translator when important documents need to be translated and there are bilingual admin officials who know both languages and can even help out alittle but don't.

3. That is the whole point, the English dept. never helped out with issues which were in their jurisdiction
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LarssonCrew



Joined: 06 Jun 2009
Posts: 1308

PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Universities usually don't care.

The English major is a money spinner, why is that you ask?

Most majors require some kind of equipment, i.e. science requires labs, computer related requires computers, sports requires some kind of sports equipment and more space.

How many students can you get into a lab using their own equipment? Maybe 30.

How many can you cram into a normal classroom for English, about 90.
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OhBudPowellWhereArtThou



Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1168
Location: Since 2003

PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jackie Chan's Double wrote:
1. Outsourcing teachers lowers the univ's credibility as it undermines the quality of the English majors' education. GDOU instead has Chinese teachers "teaching" Oral English classes who told students to memorize passages of the bible saying it is western culture and memorizing a CNN news transcript.

Foreigners aren't allowed to teach western culture, despite the fact that language in itself is one aspect of culture.



1. Huh? What makes you think so? Outsourcing teachers lowers a university's credibility? This is a ridiculous comment. Students don't know if the FAO is outsourcing teachers or if they have an outsourced teacher from another university.

Teaching passages from the Bible? Perhaps the Sermon on the Mount. It's sort of like Mozart's music. It has been quoted and requoted and used in different forms without citation because it is in the public domain.

2. I'll be teaching Western History this coming fall.

Regardless of the headlines in the news, there hasn't been the major crackdown on western culture in universities that headlines may lead one to believe.

Have you really taught in China?
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Jackie Chan's Double



Joined: 13 Jul 2016
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You must be working for the FAO office. Is your name Michelle or Carrie by any chance?

1. Yes, when FTs who have CELTAs are outsourced from English majors so that robots can give students orders to memorize useless info lowers the quality of education for the English majors who were told they would have native English speakers

2. The students had 14 pages copied from the book and were memorizing it in class. I told them to put it away as that was not our class.

3. Western History isn't western culture to some universities, just as teaching a foreign language isn't western culture to certain universities.
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OhBudPowellWhereArtThou



Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1168
Location: Since 2003

PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jackie Chan's Double wrote:
You must be working for the FAO office. Is your name Michelle or Carrie by any chance?



I'm busted. Embarassed
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OhBudPowellWhereArtThou



Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1168
Location: Since 2003

PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jackie Chan's Double wrote:


1. Yes, when FTs who have CELTAs are outsourced from English majors so that robots can give students orders to memorize useless info lowers the quality of education for the English majors


Were you teaching on the foundational and developmental levels to English majors in a UNIVERSITY? The "robots" might have had advanced English university degrees and were teaching beyond the foundational level. If you were to throw grammar,syntax, and pronunciation at the English majors I've taught, you'd have a riot on your hands.

I don't know which biblical text was prescribed at your university, but there are many parts of the bible that provide food for thought; it doesn't all deal with religious doctrine. There are actual stories in it. Many of the psalms make for great reading and discussion. Someone who is capable of leading a discussion and can leave out discussion of religious doctrine could create a very good lesson from psalms.

But for memorization, I prefer to send the students off to memorize Mein Kampf. They always return to class refreshed, remarking that they've never slept so well in their lives.
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Jackie Chan's Double



Joined: 13 Jul 2016
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ESL Cafe always needs trolls like you around to make posts interesting, don't they?
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OhBudPowellWhereArtThou



Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1168
Location: Since 2003

PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jackie Chan's Double wrote:
ESL Cafe always needs trolls like you around to make posts interesting, don't they?


I'll ignore the troll comment.

However, your failure to respond to my posts leads me to certain assumptions, the first of which is that your sole qualification for teaching English majors at a university is your CELTA certificate. That's pretty thin education for working with Chinese English majors at a university. (I'm not talking about English majors at a college for animal husbandry or the like).

If you are working with a CELTA as your sole qualification for teaching university English majors at a Chinese university, it was probably a good thing that you were outsourced to a primary or secondary school. That's where CELTA's and other similar certifications are necessary.

University English majors don't need foundational language education, and there is much resistance to teaching basic pronunciation, verb conjugation, syntax, etc. on the university level. Much of a university foreign teachers' function is to fill in the gaps in their education, mainly the opportunity to express themselves freely on a limitless number of topics. If you were assigned a deductive logic class to a class of university English majors, your CELTA would not do you much good. Likewise for western literature and history.

Get my drift?
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LarssonCrew



Joined: 06 Jun 2009
Posts: 1308

PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some universities charge students more if they have a foreign teacher, so it could also be that they are there to make some coinage for the university.
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OhBudPowellWhereArtThou



Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1168
Location: Since 2003

PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But Jackie said that the "robots" were working in the university class while the CELTA certificate holders traveled. I would assume that the "robots" to whom he referred were non-CELTA foreign teachers of whom he disapproved.
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Non Sequitur



Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China

PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LarssonCrew wrote:
Some universities charge students more if they have a foreign teacher, so it could also be that they are there to make some coinage for the university.


I think so.
At my last school (a vocational) they had a special entry freshman class that presumably hadn't got the required Gao Kao score to get in competitively.
They got FT-taught classes 4 days pw. That's 4x more than the regular kids.
I am sure one of the inducements to enroll was this FT exposure.
It was very hard to maintain their enthusiasm.
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The bear



Joined: 16 Aug 2015
Posts: 483

PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OhBudPowellWhereArtThou wrote:


If you are working with a CELTA as your sole qualification for teaching university English majors at a Chinese university, it was probably a good thing that you were outsourced to a primary or secondary school. That's where CELTA's and other similar certifications are necessary.




I don't know about that. The CELTA is designed around adult education (the 'A' is for Adults). So to say they'd be better off at a primary or secondary school is wrong.
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