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pioneer
Joined: 02 May 2016
Posts: 13
Location: around the world
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 Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 6:08 am Post subject: Teaching ESL on Business visa |
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Does anybody have teaching experience with Renmin university in Beijing?
Apparently, they don't provide Z visa but offer employment with them on F (business visa) which has to be renewed every 60 days in Hong Kong.
Is it totally illegal to earn income using F visa? The recruiter said that that is how other teachers are employed by this institution. How safe is that? |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 6:43 am Post subject: Re: Teaching ESL on Business visa |
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| pioneer wrote: |
| Is it totally illegal to earn income using F visa? How safe is that? |
Totally illegal and risky. |
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pioneer
Joined: 02 May 2016
Posts: 13
Location: around the world
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 7:17 am Post subject: Teaching ESL on Business visa |
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| That's very disappointing. I did google a a lot on the subject and it basically says that this is "a grey area" but some schools do that anyway. it's a shame because a job offer sounds too good, good salary, housing etc, and it's a reputable school (Renmin uni). May be they just trying to trick people? Any more details on that issue? |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 7:38 am Post subject: Re: Teaching ESL on Business visa |
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| pioneer wrote: |
| That's very disappointing. I did google a a lot on the subject and it basically says that this is "a grey area" but some schools do that anyway. |
For a list of visa types and their purposes, see Chinese Embassy, Consular Services.
Who told you an F visa is issued to teachers? The following is from a 2013 ad for English teachers at Renmin University, which clearly indicates a Z visa:
| Quote: |
Salary & Benefits:
- Annual Salary: 15,000-30,000 US dollar (negotiable)
- Z visa sponsored an paid for
- Basic health insurance provided
- Winter & Summer vacations and Chinese public holidays |
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pioneer
Joined: 02 May 2016
Posts: 13
Location: around the world
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:18 am Post subject: Teaching ESL on Business visa |
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Well.. this job was posted on Tefl.com website for GE and EAP teacher, advertised by Middlesex Foundation programs at Renmin University. Visa was mentioned in Salary and benefits but the type wasn't specified. It was discussed during the interview and I was told about that Business visa (i 'm not sure now whether it was F or M, but they both are business type).
I'm confused. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:54 am Post subject: Re: Teaching ESL on Business visa |
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| pioneer wrote: |
Well.. this job was posted on Tefl.com website for GE and EAP teacher, advertised by Middlesex Foundation programs at Renmin University. Visa was mentioned in Salary and benefits but the type wasn't specified. It was discussed during the interview and I was told about that Business visa (i 'm not sure now whether it was F or M, but they both are business type).
I'm confused. |
It's really not confusing. Reread the ad; the position is through Middlesex University but located at Renmin U. Middlesex is likely paying the salary, and since it's a UK university (i.e., not a Chinese entity), you wouldn't be on a Z visa. So essentially, you'd be in China teaching at Renmin but as a contractor of Middlesex. That's how I see the job ad.
When in doubt about a visa type, ask the interviewer who the actual employer is. |
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pioneer
Joined: 02 May 2016
Posts: 13
Location: around the world
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:06 am Post subject: Teaching ESL on Business visa |
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Thanks a lot for clarification. Now it makes sense.  . |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Is the salary paid in US$? |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Non Sequitur wrote: |
| Is the salary paid in US$? |
Pay is indicated in RMB.
From a TEFL job board ad: "Middlesex Services Ltd provides EAP courses to Chinese partner universities in China. Their role is to provide EAP to students wishing to complete degrees in London at Middlesex University." |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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This is the 'indication' in your earlier post:
Annual Salary: 15,000-30,000 US dollar (negotiable) |
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pioneer
Joined: 02 May 2016
Posts: 13
Location: around the world
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 4:31 pm Post subject: Teaching ESL on Business visa |
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The salary offered for this position is 12,000 RMB + 5,000 housing allowance which is paid together with the salary monthly. It's not bad, my main concern is working on a Business visa (M) which i hear is totally illegal.  . |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Non Sequitur wrote: |
This is the 'indication' in your earlier post:
Annual Salary: 15,000-30,000 US dollar (negotiable) |
I also mentioned that ad was posted by Renmin University in 2013 to fill spots for EFL teachers. I initially thought the OP was referring to Renmin U openings, in which a work visa would be required.
| pioneer wrote: |
| The salary offered for this position is 12,000 RMB + 5,000 housing allowance which is paid together with the salary monthly. It's not bad, my main concern is working on a Business visa (M) which i hear is totally illegal. |
A biz visa is typical in these situations worldwide. I had this type of visa when I worked in a similar role for a US organization that has branches and projects overseas. My salary was paid into my foreign bank account but in the local currency rather than the dollar amount stated on my contract.
Again, you'd be working as a contractor of a foreign organization providing services in China on their behalf --- specifically, the entity indicated as "company" on your contract. (Refer to the consulate link in my second post.) If you're interested in the position, you need to ask Middlesex who pays the salaries (i.e., the name of the company stated on the contract). I suspect it's Middlesex. |
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bagua8
Joined: 22 Mar 2012
Posts: 57
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:12 am Post subject: |
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| That's interesting Nomad. I'm presently working for a similar operation (sino western), with my pay also going directly into my bank account at home, but I was required to get a z visa. Not that I'm doubting your experience. |
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jimpellow
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 913
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:19 am Post subject: |
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To clear up for the OP, the M visa is a now the only legitimate visa for business purposes.
I have always heard that if the worker will be doing any type of teaching, then a z-visa is required. It is possible that they will classify you as an educational consultant. What NS speaks about can be true. Yet I don't think it would pass muster with the Chinese authorities if they saw you in a classroom standing in front of a bunch of sleeping students.
Here is why I am skeptical. The US has the L1 visa for the transfer of executives and experts between company offices. It has really been used to flood American companies with countless low wage Indians who are certainly not in reality executives nor experts.
If US immigration lawyers and Indian firms such as Tata are self serving enough to play the system, one would think that the Chinese certainly would be too.
Set-up a bogus educational foundation in a country like the US. Partner with Chinese schools. Ship the teachers off to China as consultants on an M-Visa. Stash the millions in a Canadian bank account. Retire to Vancouver....
Probably the best thing to do would be to contact an immigration attorney for a paid consultation. |
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kungfuman
Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 1749
Location: In My Own Private Idaho
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| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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| You should take the job op - Beijing has some of the nicest jails in China and you'll learn Chinese very quickly. |
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