Job Discussion Forums

[Samo]

I'm considering going to China to teach and I'd like to hear some opinions about teaching in a university or college compared to teaching at a private language school. What are the pros and cons of each?

My immediate impression is that the pay is lower at the universities and the hours worked might be fewer. But I think I might enjoy teaching college students and working at a college or university.

About the pay issues, how much money does one need to make to live comfortably in Chinese cities (other than Shanghai and Beijing)? Also, do university teaching contracts allow work on the side?

Finally, what about meeting people? Would teaching in a university be more limiting in terms of the number of English speakers I'd be likely to meet?

I've seen some of these issues discussed in other posts, but not quite from my perspective.

Any advice or opinions from those who are teaching or have taught in China will be welcomed

[Seth]

I have no uni experience, but plenty of private 'language' school experience. I'd avoid the language schools, the administrators are a school of money hungry sharks and the students range from excellent to lazy, pathetic slobs. You'll be absolutely shocked at how little discipline there is because they're pampered rich kids who get their every whim entertained so as not to lose their tuition money. I'm talking throwing books, lighting things on fire, sleeping, fighting, knocking over desks, etc. during class while the Chinese co-teacher looks on helplessly. Maybe my school is just particularly bad. The money is better at language schools, it's usually not worth the extra BS you have to put up with. Private primary schools can be OK, middle schools are the pits of dispair.
I do love my kindie-babies though.

[MyTurnNow]

Largely chiming in with Seth.

If you can cope with the pay at Universities then that is the way to go, Great teaching environment. You will encounter some weasel managers in universities, but at the private schools dishonest and/or abusive treatment is much more of a certainty. I almost hope you CAN'T take the salary at universities...as long as people keep taking the miserable pittance they offer, the policies will never change and the salaries will never get better.

I agree with the assessment of kids in private schools...the few decent ones you get may not compensate for the monsters, especially if the school kowtows to the parents and won't support you. Which happens a LOT. This is why I simply won't teach kids any more myself. The preschoolers are tolerable for a while, and I might do private lessons, but no more classes full of middle-schoolers. Ever.

And if you want a preview of what Hell must be like, go to one of those places that farms you out to Chinese public schools, especially middle schools. (Here, anything between primary and university is a middle school) Unless you have a true gift for handling large crowds of kids (I don't, at least not for a sustained period) this will not be a good experience.

To me the best gigs are company classes and adults-only schools. They're hard to find, especially with reasonable management, but they are out there and worth holding out for. Adults WANT to be in your class. Kids dont.

Salary.... I hope you won't consider anything under 5000 RMB/month with apartment, etc. all provided. Even this is pretty basic but surviveable. More will let you travel, shop, go out, have fun...and isn't that part of why you came to China in the first place? There are people out there teaching full loads at middle schools in little hellhole cities for 3500 RMB/month. I don't see how (or why) they do it. Again, if we stop accepting these deals they'll get better...
You should about double these salaries for the biggest cities. Costs a lot more to live, and there's a LOT more to spend your money on.

Good luck,
MT

[MyTurnNow]

Oh, yes, meeting people...

Universities will be fine for meeting people. There are also usually other avenues for meeting people...public English Corners, etc. Believe me, the adult English speakers will be seeking YOU out.
In the private schools it's likely that 90% of your students will be spoiled obnoxious squawling little 11-year-olds anyway. Why bother?

MT

[Roger]

Teaching at language centres can be quite unsettling. To begin with, the no. of hours is higher, and you work in the evenings and afternoons rather than early mornings. WQeekends are the busiest days, but you get a day or two off during the week.
You will be working anywhere from 20 to 30 hours a week.
What I find unsettling is that there is no continuity. Every week, yo see new faces in your old classes. Classes are scheduled to last two months normally, sometimes three months. On day one, they are full with people, and they may fill up even more over the next couple of lessons, but suddenly you notice a thinning out of the ranks and only the very dedicated will appear - a minority!
As hinted before, many are undisciplined and bored young people. The most motivated ones are the self-paying students, but often enough, you are teaching corfporate classes, and those are in my view the worst as they don't have to get their act together, yet they will continually whine and complain.
Annoying too their disrespect with their mobile phones these days!

University or college is more laid-back and potentially more social. You work primarily mornings, and the workload is well below 20 hours a week! In some instances you can moonlight with or without official endorsement.
Note also that public institutions of learning pay for some holidays (not normally summer holidays but there are several national holidays of one week during which time you stand to be paid in full), whereas private employers pay at most for a few days in one year!

Another feature of working for training cnetres is that they loan you out to other schools or privates, and that changes all the time. You can never predict whether you are going to meet a person you have a long-standing appointment with!
This is why our school has lost two English teachers hired from a private training centre in just three months! Replacement no. 3 is now with us - for how long?

[MW]

There is an investment rule that goes like this: The greater the potential return on investment the greater the risk that must be taken.

Teaching in China is similar. The higher the salary the greater the risk of problems. Private schools pay higher but have far more problems.

Public universities have Foreign Affairs Offices with trained staff who are supervised by Provincial offices who are supervised by Beijing offices.

Private schools are completely unregulated at this time and the waters are full of sharks so beware where you go swimming!

[Dragon]

Dear Comrade MW,
I quote " the greater the blah blah blah" was briliant. I heed all to listen to this genius. Listen especially about " The sharks blah blah blah".
Comrade MW, I ask you to consider holding a seminar in the town where you are posted so we may all learn from your 25+ years in China teaching ESL. Truly sir, I think it is the longest I have met or known of anyone being here. It is truly a record.
Long live Comrade MW for 10,000 years.
Your best friend Dragon

[dan]

ive noticed that the two of you love to duke it out, and all over this site. your spirited (if not, however, insulting) "debates" provide me with loads of amusement. please, never settle up, stay at odds with one another and continue to challege, rebuke, belittle, begrudge, sully, disparage and debase each other as often as possible. i no longer read threads because of their purported subjects - its far more entertaining to read you guys go at it!

[Jed]

MyTurnNow said:-

[arioch36]

When people refer to 3,500 teaching at a school or college being much less then a language school, I wonder if they are really looking at the whole picture, all the benefits, working legally, not working days or nights. at the high school and two colleges I have never had to work weekends night or Fridays. Now I teach 12 hours a week. If I, that is I not the school...if I want to work an extra 12 hours a week, I can. DO the math, 24 hours, nice house, ADSL computer paid for, no bills, health coverage, etc. I'll take the college/high school any day

[chastenosferatu]

Private schools are the source of most of the whining and bitching, even if it is legitmate, but let's face it we're adults and nobody put a gun to our heads.
I have a base salary of 4000 rmb with a computer, two bedroom apartment, and bike if I want it. I work a minimum of 20 hours a week, plus two hours of "English Corner" (aka English Speaker Cornered) with two consecutive days off each week, (mon & tue). I work extra because I choose to, our school farms us out to the primary schools in town, a 40 minute class that pays a full hour and my salary pays a bonus per live body. I teach 40 hours a week and with the extra bodies and hours last month I brought in over 13,000 rmb. Plus I am here with my spouse who is also working extra so we are saving a nice little "return to the states egg".
Bad news, the students are spoiled rotten lil buggers that I spend at least a third of the class time disciplining, which I don't mind because it all pays the same and I spent eight years working for Uncle Sam as an instructor in the Army. Cheating, plagiarising, fighting, lying... basicly I AM in China.
Really bad news, in Liaoning Province the government has indefinately shut down all private language schools for fear of spreading SARS. Remember FE's are the matrix of the illness. So my hours are cut in half, ie no bonus hours, and the school may become insolvent and renig on the contract bonus paying for our flight home.
Working for the government would be a far better option in the current state of affairs given the added security. But hey, I am a grown up and I'll survive, adapt and overcome. So I say weight the risks and go with what you feel comfortable with.