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Jmbf
Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Posts: 663
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 Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 2:32 am Post subject: |
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| Tazz wrote: |
I don't know....I've only been back here a short while, but it seems to me that something is missing from this private tutor vs language centre, for 'extra work' debate....and that's the fact that it's illegal. The possibility of being caught by the authorities-and subsequent penalties/ punishments that this may entail, seem to be disregarded....? For somebosy employed by a public University, going to work at a language centre at the weekend....isn't it somewhat 'risky'?  |
There are visas that allow you to work freely (i.e. without restriction) but admittedly in China these are difficult to come by (it's easier in Hong Kong).
In any case, I would think that the illegality of taking on side work greatly favours private tutoring over working in language centres. If you are caught illegally teaching in a language centre, there's not much you can say or do to defend yourself. But if you are found tutoring privately in someone's home, who's to say that you are not just visiting as a friend? There's no paper trail or any documents that can be used as evidence against you. In fact, I've never heard of a teacher getting caught / deported for tutoring on the side. |
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OhBudPowellWhereArtThou
Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1168
Location: Since 2003
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| Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 3:17 am Post subject: |
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| joe30 wrote: |
| OhBudPowellWhereArtThou wrote: |
joe30,
It's a good thing that you took the next flight out. You should be able to register to take the PGCE now.
Good on ya! |
I'm not sure what you mean. I'm currently in the process of doing the course now - I started in September this year and will be finished in July 2017. |
Sorry. Chopin16 dropped out of the discussion. I had you confused with that forum member. You write similarly and have similar ideas. |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 4:12 am Post subject: |
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| Jmbf wrote: |
| Tazz wrote: |
| I don't know....I've only been back here a short while, but it seems to me that something is missing from this private tutor vs language centre, for 'extra work' debate....and that's the fact that it's illegal. The possibility of being caught by the authorities-and subsequent penalties/ punishments that this may entail, seem to be disregarded....? For somebosy employed by a public University, going to work at a language centre at the weekend....isn't it somewhat 'risky'? |
There are visas that allow you to work freely (i.e. without restriction) but admittedly in China these are difficult to come by (it's easier in Hong Kong).
In any case, I would think that the illegality of taking on side work greatly favours private tutoring over working in language centres. If you are caught illegally teaching in a language centre, there's not much you can say or do to defend yourself. But if you are found tutoring privately in someone's home, who's to say that you are not just visiting as a friend? There's no paper trail or any documents that can be used as evidence against you. In fact, I've never heard of a teacher getting caught / deported for tutoring on the side. |
Sure but the 'your/place or mine', last minute cancellations, commuting time (not paid for) are real issues with privates.
The only private I did was a wealthy family intending to migrate to Canada.
They picked me up from school, took me to a different upscale restaurant each time and paid well.
I've heard enough horror stories about going to kid's homes to tutor and finding kid out or no-one home.
There's nothing risk free in China. |
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Jmbf
Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Posts: 663
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| Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 5:06 am Post subject: |
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| Non Sequitur wrote: |
Sure but the 'your/place or mine', last minute cancellations, commuting time (not paid for) are real issues with privates.
The only private I did was a wealthy family intending to migrate to Canada.
They picked me up from school, took me to a different upscale restaurant each time and paid well.
I've heard enough horror stories about going to kid's homes to tutor and finding kid out or no-one home.
There's nothing risk free in China. |
Agreed there are risks and downsides, the same as for any job. But you can mitigate / reduce a lot of these risks.
Commuting: Have them come to you (best option IMHO) OR arrange your student schedule by location, try and group them together. If your student's parents are onboard (and they should be if your reputation is good enough), ask them to talk to their friends and help you arrange a group of students in one location / area. I've seen this done effectively many times.
Last minute cancellations: Have them pay you cash upfront and in advance. Explain that cancellations are not accepted without advance notice (usually 24 hrs) otherwise that lesson's tuition fee will be forfeit. It's amazing how these lesson 'cancellation problems' will suddenly vanish if you lay out your requirements clearly from the start.
Yes, there will always be some issues to handle (some of which have never been mentioned here), but to me the problems that are always brought out with regards to private tutoring smack of amateur hour (no offence to anybody). They can be handled. Be professional, set yourself up correctly, establish your reputation and most of these problems will go away. |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 6:44 am Post subject: |
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Good stuff.
But from a cold start getting to the situation you describe could take best part of a semester.
But as long as newbes who talk up a storm about how much they're gonna make - are warned.
Actually Saturday morning language school work can parlay into privates as you become known to parents.
Best. |
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Jmbf
Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Posts: 663
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| Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| Non Sequitur wrote: |
Good stuff.
But from a cold start getting to the situation you describe could take best part of a semester.
But as long as newbes who talk up a storm about how much they're gonna make - are warned.
Actually Saturday morning language school work can parlay into privates as you become known to parents.
Best. |
Absolutely. Like anything else, to become proficient takes time, study and practise. It could take much longer than a semester to get up to speed. I think it's important to highlight what's possible, but not at the expense of what's realistic. Building up a decent student base takes time and patience and it's not always a linear path. It CAN be very rewarding if you stick with it and do it well.
And yes language centres can play a role (as I have said before) and can be a good source of students. The tricky part comes when your private student base builds up to the point at which you start to struggle to find time for them. Then you have to consider whether to give up the language centre work in order to free up more time for privates or just leave it be. The beauty of tutoring is if you are well established, you can (more or less) decide your own workload. I've taken on more work when I've wanted to and intentionally reduced it at times when I've needed more time off for family / friends / holidays / whatever. |
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joe30
Joined: 07 Jul 2016
Posts: 112
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| Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:57 am Post subject: |
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My honest opinion is most teachers would lack the capital, business ability and work ethic to make teaching privately better than doing it at a language centre.
If it works for you then great but I maintain for the majority, it's more profitable to work at a language centre rather than trying to grow a student base from nothing. |
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rogerwilco
Joined: 10 Jun 2010
Posts: 1549
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| Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| Non Sequitur wrote: |
Before dissing the peanuts jobs remember they usually provide housing and utilities and if on campus cut out the commuting and give you a place to hang if you work say 8-10 and then again 2-4.
They also pay a NY travel allowance plus all or part of your home country return fare.
Normally the workload is 16-18 50-min contact hours pw.
Plenty of time to do privates as long as you don't neglect your day job - or rub your employer's nose in it.
It's called an employment 'package'.
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Yes, most high school and university jobs provide free housing, round-trip airfare home, and they pay for and sponsor your work papers.
Most language centers do not provide most or any of that.
My last job at a uni provided meals 6 days a week, and laundry service. |
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Jmbf
Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Posts: 663
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| Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| joe30 wrote: |
| My honest opinion is most teachers would lack the capital, business ability and work ethic to make teaching privately better than doing it at a language centre. |
Obviously we are not going to see eye to eye on this but I'll continue to address your points as this conversation is quite interesting.
Capital: I thought I'd addressed this already. What capital is required? We are not talking about setting up a formal language centre with all its associated costs. We are talking about tutoring in homes (yours or the students). There is a plethora of free materials available online which can be referenced / printed out. Grammar books / worksheets are cheap. You can buy simple English games / puzzles cheaply in most bookstores or online. Your upfront capital costs for private tutoring are very very limited. You can probably budget 100 - 200 RMB and that would be enough to get you started.
Business ability: I don't think you need a lot of business ability to be a good tutor. The skills you need are more organisational in nature. Try to be the best teacher you can, improve your skill set, be professional and often you will be approached directly for work. I know A LOT of tutors, I wouldn't say they have very good business ability, rather the successful ones are simply good teachers, approachable and friendly yet organised. Those are some of the key traits that you need.
Work Ethic: I don't think that language centre work is significantly more or less intensive than private tutoring but it's down to what you get used to. Planning and preparation time for experienced tutors is very minimal (as has been noted already in this thread). Being able to teach the way you want to, to have control over your schedule and who you teach, without the frustrations that often come with centre work (poor materials, frustrating management, challenging colleagues, random work hours that are out of your control etc etc) is a big relief and needs to be taken into account.
| joe30 wrote: |
| If it works for you then great but I maintain for the majority, it's more profitable to work at a language centre rather than trying to grow a student base from nothing. |
Profitable? Vs private tutoring? That's debatable but perhaps that might be so at lower levels and in certain limited circumstances. You sound like growing a student base is rocket science. It's not, as I mentioned before, simply by being a good teacher, by being approachable, often students will come to you. That's how it starts. Taking it to a higher level is more tricky, but I would guess that most teachers can quite easily gather 4-6 private students should they want to.
Let's take 5 students at 300 RMB each as an example. That works out to 1,500 RMB per week. To match that at many language centres you would have to work at least 10 hours per week. Yes, with those 5 hours of private tutoring you may have some commuting and prep time but with organisation and experience those can be managed down to reasonable levels. As your number of students grow, this problem is exacerbated. 10 private students would work out to 3,000 RMB per week or 20 hours in a language centre etc etc. |
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twowheel
Joined: 03 Jul 2015
Posts: 753
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| Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Non Sequitur wrote: |
Good stuff.
But from a cold start getting to the situation you describe could take best part of a semester.
But as long as newbes who talk up a storm about how much they're gonna make - are warned. |
+1
...or even longer than a semester. I found it took the better part of a year for the word-of-mouth news to get out about my ability and willingness. I didn't have high financial aspirations for my tutoring; my base salary was more than adequate. I just used tutoring to put a bit of spare change in the pocket, as a way to get to know more people, and most importantly for me, to see firsthand how Chinese kids work with English.
I have never put myself in a position to actively seek out tutoring opportunities, I let them come to me ... and indeed they did. That was nice as it put me in the driver's seat and I was able to vet them on a per case basis. Some I accepted, some I turned down.
twowheel |
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getbehindthemule
Joined: 15 Oct 2015
Posts: 712
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:23 am Post subject: |
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I think that a blind eye is pretty much the case when it comes to private tutoring. But I would say that you are more at risk doing part time work in a language mill than privately.
If anybody is really serious about making private tutoring a large percentage of their income, I would recommend the following (as long as you are willing to work with young learners that is):
1. Get a job in a public primary school.
2. Ensure that the students like you and enjoy your class.
3. Make friends with your work colleagues.
If you follow these steps you will be turning down offers aplenty.
I agree with jmbf. There are little to no start up costs and you certainly don't need business ability. Desperately seeking private tutoring work might not be the way to go in large cities in China, I feel you need to establish a reputaion as being reliable and likeable first in many cases. This can take as little as a semester in my experience. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:34 am Post subject: |
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| Chopin16 wrote: |
| It's terribly difficult to find privates in Korea. Parents send their kids to the hakwons after school so they take away most of the privates you could get. There are no newspapers with classified to advertise in that I can see either. I only have 3 private students which makes me about $90 a week extra. |
Yet, on the Saudi forum, you revealed that you have an MPhil in English Studies from prestigious Cambridge University. Surely that would be a selling point for private lessons. I suspect parents would be knocking down your door to have their children take private lessons from you since Cambridge graduates are considered well-read and highly-literate.  |
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twowheel
Joined: 03 Jul 2015
Posts: 753
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:37 am Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| Yet, on the Saudi forum, you revealed that you have an MPhil in English Studies from prestigious Cambridge University. Surely that would be a selling point for private lessons. I suspect parents would be knocking down your door to have their children take private lessons from you since Cambridge graduates are considered well-read and highly-literate. |
twowheel |
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Chopin16
Joined: 30 Nov 2016
Posts: 69
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:41 am Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| Chopin16 wrote: |
| It's terribly difficult to find privates in Korea. Parents send their kids to the hakwons after school so they take away most of the privates you could get. There are no newspapers with classified to advertise in that I can see either. I only have 3 private students which makes me about $90 a week extra. |
Yet, on the Saudi forum, you revealed that you have an MPhil in English Studies from prestigious Cambridge University. Surely that would be a selling point for private lessons. I suspect parents would be knocking down your door to have their children take private lessons from you since Cambridge graduates are considered well-read and highly-literate. |
You don't need any selling points to teach in Korea. Come one NS, you know that don't you! For Oman, Saudi universities, British intl schools where the salaries are considerably more too, on the other hand, it is a good selling point and emails are flowing in. LOL I am glad I took the course  |
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twowheel
Joined: 03 Jul 2015
Posts: 753
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:50 am Post subject: |
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| getbehindthemule wrote: |
I think that a blind eye is pretty much the case when it comes to private tutoring. But I would say that you are more at risk doing part time work in a language mill than privately.
If anybody is really serious about making private tutoring a large percentage of their income, I would recommend the following (as long as you are willing to work with young learners that is):
1. Get a job in a public primary school.
2. Ensure that the students like you and enjoy your class.
3. Make friends with your work colleagues.
If you follow these steps you will be turning down offers aplenty. |
^^^This.
Agreed on the turning of the blind eye--I kept my head down and kept my "extracurricular work activities" on the down low, don't ask and don't tell kind of thing. As #3 indicates, I have tutored work colleagues' kids, so it was tacitly accepted. My willingness to do so was appreciated.
| getbehindthemule wrote: |
| I agree with jmbf. There are little to no start up costs and you certainly don't need business ability. Desperately seeking private tutoring work might not be the way to go in large cities in China, I feel you need to establish a reputaion as being reliable and likeable first in many cases. This can take as little as a semester in my experience. |
I agree with this as well and it generally describes my experiences. I do feel that desperately seeking private tutoring work and putting oneself in a position to have to rely on the extra income are not the ways to go--again, just doing it for a bit of spare change and experience should suffice.
twowheel |
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