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Job offered in a tier 3 city, some questions
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Non Sequitur

Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China

Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:55 pm Post subject:

Tazz wrote:

Privates....privates...privates-here we go sama-sama, same old, same old..-I know that the Gulf pay is decining, but surely working for $3-4000 a month has got to be better, as an alternative to japan, than the 7-8 thou '+ privates' being suggested here, as your Chinese alternative ....as a property/ multiple car owner in Jakarta-and a soon to be returnee to the Gulf, I can tell you that less than 12-14k a month is an absolute pittance for your endevours/labors....

OP makes it clear that he wants out of Japan for reasons other than money. He doesn't state his precise interest in China and we should take his q at face value.
As to the 'privates-privates' thing, if you don't have the entry requirements for the Gulf then the point is surely to maximise the cash flow in the place(s), you can get access. Many including myself don't have pristine A-Grade credentials.
Dave's China is awash with OPs along the lines 'I don't know why you guys are working for 7k when I get 30'
Only when they are pushed do these people admit they are employed at an International.

rogerwilco

Joined: 10 Jun 2010
Posts: 1549

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:30 pm Post subject:

Is the job offered through an organization known as JESIE ? If so, I can understand why they would not put you in contact with current or former teachers. Two friends of mine were lied to and abused by JESIE.

baki

Joined: 29 Dec 2010
Posts: 72

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:45 pm Post subject:

Some further details on this contract:

Quote:

If the days when Party B works do not cover one whole month, Party A should pay Party B by the number of days. The daily wage is 1/30 of monthly wage amount (February is the same).

Party B shall have the same holidays as his Chinese colleagues do;
Party B will also have 1 day for Christmas (December 25th) and 1 day for Easter (Good Friday).

2000rmb will be offered as travel allowance and 7000rmb will be paid for international flight to come to China and return to his home country.

If Party B extends the period of the contract for an additional year, 75% of the salary will be paid to Party B during July and August, prior to the commencement of the new contract period.

I was not able to negotiate on the salary any further, but with the available free time I could do privates as most people seem to be doing.

I think overall it doesn't sound too bad.

Tazz wrote:

Sure it is better and I know a couple of people working in the gulf who used to work in China. Their motivation is purely financial. I've already been through that with Japan as well as other countries and it got tiring moving around to be honest (the other alternative was to go back to England and train to be a subject teacher). This contract offers the shortest number of hours I've ever received for a full-time position, and it's at a university. I'll have more time to spare for other opportunities (ie. skills development). BTW, what cars?

baki

Joined: 29 Dec 2010
Posts: 72

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:49 pm Post subject:

rogerwilco wrote:

Is the job offered through an organization known as JESIE ?
If so, I can understand why they would not put you in contact with current or former teachers. Two friends of mine were lied to and abused by JESIE.

No, this one is a direct hire.

Non Sequitur

Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:56 pm Post subject:

baki wrote:

Some further details on this contract:

Quote:

I was not able to negotiate on the salary any further, but with the available free time I could do privates as most people seem to be doing.

I think overall it doesn't sound too bad.

Tazz wrote:

It looks like the standard SAFEA. I would keep going and follow the suggestions listed by many posters on the Job Offer Checklist thread.
Best
NS

backtochina2017

Joined: 28 Nov 2016
Posts: 123

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: Job offered in a tier 3 city, some questions

Quote:

So I've been offered a job and would like to know what folks here think of it:

- It's near Yanzhou

I'll address that later.

doogsville wrote:

baki wrote:

I'll be the only foreigner in my school. I don't know if that is a bad thing but the school was not willing to get me in touch with any former FTs. I always feel that people do this because they're hiding something, but then it may be just company policy.

Surely this is all the information you need to tell you that it's not a good idea. Company policy? Why? Other than to hide the dissatisfaction of those former teachers I can think of no sensible reason not to let you speak to them. I would keep looking if I were you.

There are 2 factors in these above posts.

The first has to do with being the only teacher at the school as opposed to getting hired in a group or added to a group. Both have pros and cons. If you are new to ESL teaching, it might be best to go to a big city (Beijing, Shanghai, Seoul, Busan, Osaka or Tokyo) and work with 3 or more foreign teachers. This will give you the amenities and the support base to learn the ropes. During your first year, you will either know it is for you or you will return to your home country.

The original poster mentioned they were in Japan, but we don't know for how long. So, leaving Japan is either a wise decision because they don't like the job or because they don't like teaching. If they are unhappy career wise then my question would be why do you have to leave Japan? Why not try another school? This leads me to believe they are more unhappy with teaching ESL than living in a foreign country. Why teach ESL then? Find a reason to teach your students. Leaving the school, the students, the city, and now the country? Something's up. Think about it.

Back to the point of this post. Let's say they got a job in Japan and the same premise came up, they would be the only teacher. If you still want that support base and you still want amenities within an arm's reach don't take the job.

After a few years, for me, I found I preferred being the only teacher. If something came up, they were more likely to communicate with me than network a team of teachers with meetings, workshops, outings with students, parent activities, etc...

As for amenities, it only takes about 1-2 hours by bus to go into a capital city or bigger city in a province. Wake up around 6-7am and sleep on the bus. You will arrive around 10am, and you might have to leave after a dinner at 6:45pm. Some buses stop at 7:30pm for example. You can't enjoy 8 hours and get what you need? Stay the night, get a hotel room. There are also computer rooms (wangba) you can go to.

This is kind of the point of living abroad. If you really want to live in a bubble of foreigners and not interact with the locals that's your choice, but I am not working abroad to do something I could do back home for 1/3 the salary. Think about that.

So after your adventure/clique decision, decide if it is really necessary to get previous teachers' experiences. I have worked at schools where I left 1 year after working and I left a school 3 weeks after working. I have reported my experiences online with the 3 week school and you don't need to know what school it is. If you do your research, and they offered you the job, you will see my comments guaranteed. Also, there are schools where I only had a problem with one department (like university or private school) or one person. This doesn't mean the school is bad. If they left and a new manager was hired, then it's basically like a new school. What moral right do I have to warn you about that school without having my facts on its current status?

Then, there are those who complain about schools because they get emotional over something really stupid. Maybe they put in extra hours, became involved with the school more than they should have, and now leaving is causing problems mentally. They will be vindictive.

The last reason to not worry about teacher references is that if they are currently working at the school still then they are most likely not going to tell you something bad and risk losing their last pay, their airfare money and references/release letter. So, even if you did talk to a current teacher or previous teacher they aren't necessarily going to give you the truth. If a teacher really has a problem with the school they taught at, they should report it online on a major ESL site and make it easily searchable through Google and Baidu (since Google might be blocked).

So, based on what I know so far, I would first question the move to China. Is it really what you want? If yes, then you need to find out where you want to go. If you are worried about being the only teacher, why on earth are you considering Yanzhou 兖州市 and not a bigger city? Why put yourself in a helpless predicament and wonder why? I don't see a subway. I tried doing the road view option on a few streets and nothing. Usually you get blue highlighted roads you can view on Baidu maps, but nothing. Absolutely nothing.

I'm not sure about this "tier 3" classification. There are plenty of what I would consider tier 3 cities which have easier access. If we call it a tier 3, then it's a tier 3 on the lower rung for transportation and travel. You are likely not to see a Walmart.

After doing that search, I see there is a Yangzhou, 扬州. That has a Walmart. It's also a skip away from Nanjing. If you don't mind the climate (too hot for me) then that would be a very sensible location for a teacher who has some experience abroad. You can always go into Nanjing, travel down to Shanghai, and there are other places like Ningbo, Suzhou and Shandong. Hey, I might take this job now that I have researched it a bit LOL Razz

(nah, I got my own school lined up).

I would pass on Yanzhou, but I would want to look more into the job if it was in Yangzhou. And who knows, if the school is in Yanzhou maybe the only reason the school doesn't have a previous teacher contact is that the location is bad. The school might be great. That might be why teachers are not there. They have left a good school to be in a better location. One man's trash is another man's treasure.

Non Sequitur

Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:37 pm Post subject:

This is kind of the point of living abroad. If you really want to live in a bubble of foreigners and not interact with the locals that's your choice, but I am not working abroad to do something I could do back home for 1/3 the salary. Think about that. If you were licensed to teach at home, why would you be abroard anyway - other than at an International School?

backtochina2017

Joined: 28 Nov 2016
Posts: 123

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:16 am Post subject:

Non Sequitur wrote:

This is kind of the point of living abroad. If you really want to live in a bubble of foreigners and not interact with the locals that's your choice, but I am not working abroad to do something I could do back home for 1/3 the salary. Think about that.

If you were licensed to teach at home, why would you be abroard anyway - other than at an International School?

Sorry, I am not following you. I was referring to foreigners who want to live and work abroad (22-25 year olds, just out of college, older teachers like me in their 40s who are repeating that, LOL). It is not a requirement that they be licensed and being licensed to teach at home would seem limiting to me.

I have heard of homeschooling, but I never saw a whole high school class of students (30) just show up at someone's home like I do at a public high school.

Getting licensed in certain states of the US to teach at a public school, I get that. But teaching at home? In what scope are you referring to if not just the typical homeschooled approach with either the children or smaller groups?

Another thing I would like to point out is just because you are licensed, it doesn't mean you have to necessarily go to an international school. There are plenty of schools which have a program (like GAC, not the best but it is there) where you can make the same salary you would at an international school if you are licensed. Math teachers and science teachers could make considerably more money than us average English teachers.

bograt

Joined: 12 Nov 2014
Posts: 331

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:04 am Post subject:

Non Sequitur wrote:

Who can make three times what they make back home doing TEFL? In my experience everyone who teaches abroad makes more money than they could doing the same thing back home. Whether or not that's their primary motivation is another matter.

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