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BritishTeacher1985
Joined: 30 Apr 2014 Posts: 28
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Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:57 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Nomad, that's really helpful to know. Antiher question they asked ST interview was whether I had experience of Health and Safety in general. |
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Londonlover
Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 90 Location: London
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Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:05 am Post subject: |
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BritishTeacher1985 wrote: |
I get that students are unmotivated and have worked with Saudi nationals before. Experience of teaching in the ME would be valuable, which is something I lack.
I'm already teaching at a University but would like to teach in 'the field' again before returning to uni... |
I think you need to be much more aware, realistic and less naive. It is a very serious misjudgment on your part IMO to assume that the the Saudi students you may have taught in U.K. universities will be similar in motivation levels to those in Saudi. Those at U.K. universities are actually generally well-educated, extremely well behaved and pretty well-motivated, in my experience. You say these are unmotivated, but I fear, YOU AINT SEEN NOTHING YET (!!!!!) regarding students actually in Saudi.
The reason they will pay you the big bucks is precisely because your life as a teacher in many places there will consist of struggling to manage some of the worst, laziest, unable, unmotivated, arrogant, badly behaving individuals, and likely not doing that much meaningful teaching. I would very confidently bet that you will come to see the Saudi students in U.K. universities as angelic, study-devoted and driven intellectual geniuses in comparison.
They are not paying you for your wonderful teaching craft in Saudi. They are paying you to cope with the S**T that you will be inundated with. |
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danshengou
Joined: 17 Feb 2016 Posts: 434 Location: A bizarre overcrowded hole
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Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:33 am Post subject: |
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BritishTeacher1985 wrote: |
nomad soul wrote: |
BritishTeacher1985 wrote: |
I don't feel a PhD helps support teaching Methodologies in the classroom and that is why I'm more interested in obtaining the MA. |
What is your doctoral focus/major? |
Education Studies (Research on social interaction in schools). So no EFL component which doesn't help. It's a broader theme, hence the reason to pursue the second MA. |
If you want to work in Saudi, why not get a job within a relevant department at a university there as an assistant professor. In other words, put your phd to work in something more germane and more worth your time. |
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BritishTeacher1985
Joined: 30 Apr 2014 Posts: 28
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Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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Londonlover wrote: |
BritishTeacher1985 wrote: |
I get that students are unmotivated and have worked with Saudi nationals before. Experience of teaching in the ME would be valuable, which is something I lack.
I'm already teaching at a University but would like to teach in 'the field' again before returning to uni... |
I think you need to be much more aware, realistic and less naive. It is a very serious misjudgment on your part IMO to assume that the the Saudi students you may have taught in U.K. universities will be similar in motivation levels to those in Saudi. Those at U.K. universities are actually generally well-educated, extremely well behaved and pretty well-motivated, in my experience. You say these are unmotivated, but I fear, YOU AINT SEEN NOTHING YET (!!!!!) regarding students actually in Saudi.
The reason they will pay you the big bucks is precisely because your life as a teacher in many places there will consist of struggling to manage some of the worst, laziest, unable, unmotivated, arrogant, badly behaving individuals, and likely not doing that much meaningful teaching. I would very confidently bet that you will come to see the Saudi students in U.K. universities as angelic, study-devoted and driven intellectual geniuses in comparison.
They are not paying you for your wonderful teaching craft in Saudi. They are paying you to cope with the S**T that you will be inundated with. |
Sorry, I think you assumed I was referring to Uni students only. I have taught university students in the UK who are from Saudi, but yes they are driven and no real issues.
However, I taught a group of UAE and Saudi nationals in colleges who were falling asleep, late to class, on mobile phones constantly, disruptive, rarely spoke English and these were the disruptions I have had to deal with so have some idea. I cannot claim I know exactly what it will be like but judging from what most teachers say, it certainly isn't enjoyable trying to motivate them. I can imagine that the teaching is the easy part! |
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BritishTeacher1985
Joined: 30 Apr 2014 Posts: 28
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Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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If you want to work in Saudi, why not get a job within a relevant department at a university there as an assistant professor. In other words, put your phd to work in something more germane and more worth your time.[/quote]
Yes, I would but for such a big sacrifice, moving with family etc, the remuneration in Universities is less than what the private companies will pay. To be blunt, it is an opportunity for me to save whilst still teaching English for the short term. Then, later on I will return to work in universities. So, if I have the MA done, I will be able to jump from one job to the next a little easier. |
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babur
Joined: 10 Aug 2010 Posts: 178 Location: Dammam, Saudi Arabia
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Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:28 pm Post subject: you aint seen nothing yet |
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Quote: |
I have taught university students in the UK who are from Saudi |
You ain't seen nothing yet. |
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BritishTeacher1985
Joined: 30 Apr 2014 Posts: 28
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Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for all your input guys - especially those who have been there and done it.
Can anyone tell me what techniques you did use in an attempt to motivate them so that they were able to engage a little? |
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danshengou
Joined: 17 Feb 2016 Posts: 434 Location: A bizarre overcrowded hole
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Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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BritishTeacher1985 wrote: |
Yes, I would but for such a big sacrifice, moving with family etc, the remuneration in Universities is less than what the private companies will pay. To be blunt, it is an opportunity for me to save whilst still teaching English for the short term. Then, later on I will return to work in universities. So, if I have the MA done, I will be able to jump from one job to the next a little easier. |
So let me get this straight. So you feel compelled to disregard your phd in order to waste more time and money on an MA in order to have the privilege of being able to work off even more debt as a poorly respected English teacher in one of the world's most restrictive countries? |
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danshengou
Joined: 17 Feb 2016 Posts: 434 Location: A bizarre overcrowded hole
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Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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BritishTeacher1985 wrote: |
I can imagine that the teaching is the easy part! |
That is because it will only comprise about 2% of the workload. |
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danshengou
Joined: 17 Feb 2016 Posts: 434 Location: A bizarre overcrowded hole
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Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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scot47 wrote: |
Hiring Committee at KFUPM used to routinely turn down candidates with a PhD. The ability to teach Intermediate English to learners does not necessarily come with research skills in Applied Linguistics. |
But then again, if one has obtained a legit 5-year on-campus phd, one should presumably be applying for something more in keeping with the new skill set rather than teaching the present perfect over and over again. |
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bigdurian
Joined: 05 Feb 2014 Posts: 401 Location: Flashing my lights right behind you!
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Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:30 am Post subject: |
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danshengou wrote: |
BritishTeacher1985 wrote: |
I can imagine that the teaching is the easy part! |
That is because it will only comprise about 2% of the workload. |
What makes you say that? What has your experience of teaching in the sandbox been like? |
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BritishTeacher1985
Joined: 30 Apr 2014 Posts: 28
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Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:38 am Post subject: |
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So let me get this straight. So you feel compelled to disregard your phd in order to waste more time and money on an MA in order to have the privilege of being able to work off even more debt as a poorly respected English teacher in one of the world's most restrictive countries?[/quote]
Quote: |
It's not disregarding, it will help me to get an interview plus I have no outstanding student loan and also had funding for the PhD. In fact that the new MA is via distance learning and really good value compared to the cost of other post-graduate study at £1570 per annual.
I agree with the point regarding the new skill set but from my point of view, I have options and I don't enjoy doing the same job for too long but happy to come back to it. Long story short, I like dipping in and out of Language Teaching and if this works out then I will have more experience when returning to Lecturering in HE.
Maybe I'm in the minority here, basically I teach Education Studies at the moment alongside some EAP every summer. I've previously taught EFL and ESOL full time for a number of years.
So as you can see I like the variation and hopefully will also have the option some day to dip into teaching on a Linguistics programme at undergraduate level. These quals are all active for me and not just a point of getting degrees for the sake of it.
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nomad soul

Joined: 31 Jan 2010 Posts: 11454 Location: The real world
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Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:54 am Post subject: |
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BritishTeacher1985 wrote: |
In fact that the new MA is via distance learning and really good value compared to the cost of other post-graduate study at £1570 per annual.
So as you can see I like the variation and hopefully will also have the option some day to dip into teaching on a Linguistics programme at undergraduate level. These quals are all active for me and not just a point of getting degrees for the sake of it. |
FYI: The governments of Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain (and possibly the UAE) do not recognize qualifying degrees and credentials that include coursework studied via distance learning/online. See http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=115564 -- the most recent discussion about this issue. |
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bigdurian
Joined: 05 Feb 2014 Posts: 401 Location: Flashing my lights right behind you!
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Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:01 am Post subject: |
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BritishTeacher1985 wrote: |
Thanks for all your input guys - especially those who have been there and done it.
Can anyone tell me what techniques you did use in an attempt to motivate them so that they were able to engage a little? |
I've worked in two very different settings in Saudi. One in an international school, and the other in a military setting which is where I am now. However, there are certain things that they have in common regarding motivation of the students.
Disclaimer: this has been my experience, other people probably think I'm talking rubbish.
Be motivated yourself. By this I mean care about your students' progress. You can't expect them to care if you don't either.
Make them respect you, as a teacher, and a person. By this I mean that you should know your stuff. If they can see that you do actually know what you're talking about, they will respond to that, and I'm often surprised by what I get back.
And as a person, I mean that you shouldn't be going into class hungover. You should also set a good example about how to live your life. If they see you as someone to look up to, this can work.
Take an interest in them. Learn about where they're from, what they like to do. Show an interest however alien what they do may seem to you.
I also use a lot of humour in class. Saudis don't like serious, so if you can crack a few jokes as you go along, it makes your day a lot better too. It helps if you can be relaxed. Saudis are very friendly and sociable people. I haven't come across any animosity in class, even when I've had to do things that will have repercussions for the students.
Be strict. Have rules, and follow them to the letter. Make sure they know that if they step out of line there will be consequences. This is especially true in a military setting where they're going to get punished or lose points.
So for me, all of these things combined work for me, and I like to think I get good results. Most of my time teaching here has been a lot of fun and I've enjoyed it. But that 10-20%(whatever the figure is) that wasn't, would be up there with some of my worst ever experiences. Teaching officers would be in there.
But at the end of the day, I get paid very well. Saved 30K GBP last year with out even trying, and your don't get that in some school in China, Columbia, or Vietnam......  |
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BritishTeacher1985
Joined: 30 Apr 2014 Posts: 28
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Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:56 am Post subject: |
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nomad soul wrote: |
BritishTeacher1985 wrote: |
In fact that the new MA is via distance learning and really good value compared to the cost of other post-graduate study at £1570 per annual.
So as you can see I like the variation and hopefully will also have the option some day to dip into teaching on a Linguistics programme at undergraduate level. These quals are all active for me and not just a point of getting degrees for the sake of it. |
FYI: The governments of Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain (and possibly the UAE) do not recognize qualifying degrees and credentials that include coursework studied via distance learning/online. See http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=115564 -- the most recent discussion about this issue. |
Yes, I'm aware of this but I'm keeping my options open in terms of where I would like to teach. Nice to have thr option even though I may never venture overseas for work again. |
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