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So, what do you do when they won't...
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TeacherInChina



Joined: 17 Dec 2010
Posts: 206

PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:29 am    Post subject: So, what do you do when they won't... Reply with quote

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The bear



Joined: 16 Aug 2015
Posts: 483

PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's really strange. Don't often hear of stories like this from a public university.

My first course of action would be to try and go above the FAO's head. Is there an international department in your uni? Sit outside their office all day until things get resolved.

Do you know where your city's SAFEA office is? Not that I've actually done this but I've read about people who have, go there and file a complaint about the uni breaking the contract.

If things don't improve then I guess you could just not show up to classes. Withhold grades. Etc.

The uni has already broken the contract, it seems, so be prepared for them to keep doing so.
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OhBudPowellWhereArtThou



Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1168
Location: Since 2003

PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is this college partially "privatized"? It may have money problems that may worsen.

Did the second contract actually spell out paying for your return to China? The school may have expected you to stay through the winter months, probably without pay.

If it is a public school, there should be an FAO who handles all non-academic affairs for the FT. That's who you need to go to first. I've worked for only one college where I was aware that there was a president, and that was a semi-privatized school. If there really is a school president, I'd say to contact his office through someone not associated with the school who speaks Chinese. If you follow the chain of command, you can't be faulted for not contacting the *right* person.

If there's no satisfaction from the president, your next step is to go to the City FAO. While there's no guarantee that the City FAO can fix things if there's private money flowing through the school's coffers, the City FAO is responsible for seeing to it that the school's FAO looks after your interests and does all that it can to get you reimbursed and paid. If the school is having money problems, the private end of the school will drag its feet until you give up.

That was my experience.
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TeacherInChina



Joined: 17 Dec 2010
Posts: 206

PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply Bear. This place is dodgy.

Quote:
The bear wrote:
That's really strange. Don't often hear of stories like this from a public university.


Yes, I thought that there would be a measure of assurance against this kind of chicanery.

Quote:
My first course of action would be to try and go above the FAO's head. Is there an international department in your uni? Sit outside their office all day until things get resolved.


There is a foreign language department, but who the head of it is, is still unknown to me.

Quote:
Do you know where your city's SAFEA office is? Not that I've actually done this but I've read about people who have, go there and file a complaint about the uni breaking the contract.


I don't. I am only aware of the PSB office where my resident permit application was made. I would be hesitant to go this route. Though i am confident that I could easily present my issues via documentation, I am not as confident that they would even take my concerns seriously.

Quote:
If things don't improve then I guess you could just not show up to classes. Withhold grades. Etc.

I have considered this, but it is a bluff that only I would stand to lose, if they did call it. In my estimation, they couldn't care less about the grades or classes. It would only give them a reason, as ridiculous as it sounds, to not pay me due to breach of contract.

Quote:
The uni has already broken the contract, it seems, so be prepared for them to keep doing so.
Yes, but I am trying to finish this contract without losing a substantial amount of cash. This is the only leverage they have on me, and they know it.


Last edited by TeacherInChina on Fri Jun 30, 2017 1:45 am; edited 1 time in total
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TeacherInChina



Joined: 17 Dec 2010
Posts: 206

PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OhBudPowellWhereArtThou wrote:
Is this college partially "privatized"? It may have money problems that may worsen.

It is a fully public university college/university.

Quote:
Did the second contract actually spell out paying for your return to China? The school may have expected you to stay through the winter months, probably without pay.


Yes, It stipulates the flight to China and the flight back home upon completion. I renewed the contract to finish out this winter semester, which also stipulates that the flight to and from China is to be reimbursed.

Quote:
If it is a public school, there should be an FAO who handles all non-academic affairs for the FT. That's who you need to go to first. I've worked for only one college where I was aware that there was a president, and that was a semi-privatized school. If there really is a school president, I'd say to contact his office through someone not associated with the school who speaks Chinese. If you follow the chain of command, you can't be faulted for not contacting the *right* person.




Quote:
If there's no satisfaction from the president, your next step is to go to the City FAO. While there's no guarantee that the City FAO can fix things if there's private money flowing through the school's coffers, the City FAO is responsible for seeing to it that the school's FAO looks after your interests and does all that it can to get you reimbursed and paid. If the school is having money problems, the private end of the school will drag its feet until you give up.


As far as i can tell there are no money problems. Going to the city FAO sounds like it might rankle some feathers. Honestly, I have no idea how i would even set up that meeting. Just walk in and bang on the glass while maniacally pointing to a fistful of papers? Smile When i showed the tax bureau documentation of improper deductions and fudging of the tax receipts, they couldn't care any less, smiled and said "talk to your school...bye bye...smile"


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TeacherInChina



Joined: 17 Dec 2010
Posts: 206

PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any suggestions on how one would most effectively approach such a meeting with the college president? I have all necessary documentation and the flight reimbursement and tax issues are clear cut.

So, any contract conflict resolution (with Chinese characteristics) experts ?
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OhBudPowellWhereArtThou



Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1168
Location: Since 2003

PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you know any Chinese faculty besides the FAO? If so, ask him to find out where the president's office is and set up an appointment for both of you to talk to him.

You said that there was a dinner where you, the president and the vice president took you to dinner. That's pretty normal for public universities except that the FAO, the dean, the assistant dean, etc. attend (and they are identified as such).

Something is REALLY wrong. The Foreign Affairs Officer IS the international department for the foreign teachers. While the FAO has other responsibilities such as meeting with foreign dignitaries, investors, and the like, she is responsible for you and getting you paid. The school president may have influence over her, but her boss is really the City Foreign Affairs Officer, provided that the person that you know her as the school's FAO really is an FAO. The real FAO may be someone upstairs in the same building who doesn't speak English. I've seen that.

Before you start any fires, do some homework about the hierarchy in the school. Sometimes, the hierarchy doesn't follow the western model. In one public university, the FAO was also the university directress, a title that I've always associated with private schools. Find out if there is such a person.

Another thing to consider is that one person who has a LOT of power is the most senior party official at the school. It's usually someone in school administration, but at one school where I taught, the senior party official was the owner of the cafeteria concession.

It's good that you want to know of some "Chinese way" to handle the situation. I'm not sure that what I've observed will work for you. It seems that the Chinese roll over and die when they're getting scrod. One thing for sure, don't do what I did once. I went in with guns ablaze and shortly found myself speaking to a very well-spoken Chinese teacher who quietly and subtly insulted me for twenty minutes. It took me a good while to patch all the holes that I shot into the walls.

Do your homework. Learn the chain of command. Make appointments to meet with everyone. Bring an interpreter of your own (not the FAO). Speak softly. Don't get upset. When you reach the end of the line, go to the City FAO. That person should be able to fix things. If the school doesn't straighten up and fly right, the school could lose its authority to employ foreign teachers. I've seen that happen too.

the bear mentioned SAFEA. I have many reservations about even trying to find a local SAFEA representative who will help, much less one who speaks English. I won't tell you that my opinion of the SAFEA is that's useless as a sleeping, toothless, farting dog. Just don't get me started on that.
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TeacherInChina



Joined: 17 Dec 2010
Posts: 206

PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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TeacherInChina



Joined: 17 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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TeacherInChina



Joined: 17 Dec 2010
Posts: 206

PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"OhBudPowellWhereArtThou"
Quote:
]Do you know any Chinese faculty besides the FAO? If so, ask him to find out where the president's office is and set up an appointment for both of you to talk to him.



Quote:

Something is REALLY wrong. The Foreign Affairs Officer IS the international department for the foreign teachers. While the FAO has other responsibilities such as meeting with foreign dignitaries, investors, and the like, she is responsible for you and getting you paid. The school president may have influence over her, but her boss is really the City Foreign Affairs Officer, provided that the person that you know her as the school's FAO really is an FAO. The real FAO may be someone upstairs in the same building who doesn't speak English. I've seen that.


Given what you have said, the person i deal with is not the FAO. However, I do know that she has been the one solely responsible for me and the other foreign teachers. She is a teacher that works in my department that deals with foreign affairs. I have no idea who the true FAO is. She is rather new and clueless to a lot of things you would expect an FAO to know. Where the real FAO is unknown to me, and foreign teachers are cut off from other faculty - from day one.

Quote:
... In one public university, the FAO was also the university directress, a title that I've always associated with private schools. Find out if there is such a person.

I will ask.

Quote:
Another thing to consider is that one person who has a LOT of power is the most senior party official at the school. It's usually someone in school administration, but at one school where I taught, the senior party official was the owner of the cafeteria concession.





Quote:
It's good that you want to know of some "Chinese way" to handle the situation.

Certainly, yes! That is why i asked Smile I have no problem with dealing with administration or upper management back home. I can and do advocate strongly for myself, but very nicely!

Quote:
It seems that the Chinese roll over and die when they're getting scrod.

It has been made very clear throughout my conversations with her that this is what they expect me to do.

Quote:
One thing for sure, don't do what I did once. I went in with guns ablaze

I would never do that, but I can understand why someone would Smile

Quote:
Learn the chain of command. Make appointments to meet with everyone. Bring an interpreter of your own (not the FAO). Speak softly.



Quote:
Don't get upset
.

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The bear



Joined: 16 Aug 2015
Posts: 483

PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my opinion you've been nice enough already. They've already broken the contract and seems they're giving you the runaround.

Be prepared to get nothing. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

I've often wondered to myself what I'd do in this situation. Providing I'd exhausted normal channels of communication. Not going to class for a week? Not submitting grades/attendance? Hell, even selling the furniture in the apartment. Anything to try and recoup the losses.
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TeacherInChina



Joined: 17 Dec 2010
Posts: 206

PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bear wrote:
In my opinion you've been nice enough already. They've already broken the contract and seems they're giving you the runaround.

Be prepared to get nothing. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

I've often wondered to myself what I'd do in this situation. Providing I'd exhausted normal channels of communication. Not going to class for a week? Not submitting grades/attendance? Hell, even selling the furniture in the apartment. Anything to try and recoup the losses.


Yeah, it is a really crappy spot to be in. I think I will have to approach the president to see if he is willing to solve this.

The way i see it is that it doesn't matter how patient or nice i have been about this, or even all the things they have done to screw me during this contract, the moment i take a hard line it will be used against me.


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OhBudPowellWhereArtThou



Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1168
Location: Since 2003

PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems like you are not dealing with the FAO but a foreign teacher liaison who may have been instructed to keep the FTs out of the FAO's hair, or he may not even like foreigners and has taken it upon himself to be an obstructionist.

Do your best to find out who has his finger on the button at the school. Take names of people that you have spoken to or who have tried to speak to, then go to the City FAO's office which is usually housed in the PSB building where you got your residence permit. If you can find someone who speaks English, ask for the name of the FAO.

When you find the office, just go in and say "Howdy. Nice dress you're wearing [they're usually women]. Had any good tufu lately? By the way, I'm having problems at my school, but no one seems to want to help."

If you find yourself talking to a jerk, that isn't the City FAO. One of the city FAO's jobs is to ride herd over school FAOs so that the city doesn't get a bad name. If the jerk won't help, ask him directly, "Are you THE FAO or the assistant FAO?" Get his name too. If he is an assistant, walk down the hall and wait for someone else to enter the office. That'll probably be the head honcho.

If you still can't get satisfaction, and don't mind stirring up a hornets nest, Just tell the jerks that your next stop is the PSB, then the mayor's office. Leave your phone number with the City FAO and go back to your apartment and wait for a call from someone. Chances are that you'll be on the bus headed back home when you get a call from either the real school FAO or the City FAO.

Just keep smiling through it all and keep your cool, no matter how ridiculous their responses.
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Non Sequitur



Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China

PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Despite what Bud says in an earlier post I feel SAFEA or the threat of an approach by you, is your only option.
If you want to get this resolved by end of Semester (June) start now.
Tell your classes that you will be unable to give a 'final' test or mark. Make it vague but the class snitich will get the message back.
Make sure the SAFEA comment and the no finals comment hit the same desk at the same time.
Best
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rioux



Joined: 26 Apr 2012
Posts: 880

PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please let us know the name of the school perhaps after you immediately leave.
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