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asiannationmc
Joined: 13 Aug 2014 Posts: 1342
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Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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| China Central Bank now requires ‘third party payment providers’ (e.g. WeChat and Alipay) to implement real name verification systems for payment services. Users can still use online nicknames....online service providers now ask users to supply real identities if they want online services on mobile phones. |
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OhBudPowellWhereArtThou

Joined: 02 Jun 2015 Posts: 1168 Location: Since 2003
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Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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BACK TO THE OP'S ORIGINAL QUESTION
But first, about me: I have taught U.S. inner city private and public schools as well as U.S public universities as well as Chinese public universities.
There are three culprits at play in one scenario if the test is a departmental test. That is, the test is one that the school department issues the same test to all who take the same class.
A. The teacher is not using the test as a guideline in his lectures.
B. As above but the class doesn't care about what is taught for various reasons which are beyond the teacher's control.
If the teacher creates his own lesson plan and creates his own test, there are other possibilities.
A. The class doesn't give a whit about the FT's class for reasons beyond the teacher's control.
B. The teacher's lecture and the test don't jibe.
C. The teacher creates tests that by design, the students will fail. I am very familiar with this scenario because this describes my approach in my early years in a U.S. inner city environment. In a seventh grade class, we read Treasure Island. There was one not-very-memorable passage that described the button on an officer's coat. The test's prompt addressed this point. Perhaps three out of thirty students could address it. I continued to design my tests like this until I realized that my tests were designed to fail students. This was the very same approach that many of my teachers in Catholic school used when they designed their tests.
I changed my tests and designed them so that the students could pass them. My tests were designed to address the big picture rather than the mundane and obscure. Once I changed my approach, the class began enjoying reading much more.
I created tests that students could pass. Over the course of te grading period, student morale improved, and grades soared to the point that i had to make the tests a bit more analytical and challenging.
Most rose to the occasion. |
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The bear
Joined: 16 Aug 2015 Posts: 483
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Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| OhBudPowellWhereArtThou wrote: |
C. The teacher creates tests that by design, the students will fail. I am very familiar with this scenario because this describes my approach in my early years in a U.S. inner city environment. In a seventh grade class, we read Treasure Island. There was one not-very-memorable passage that described the button on an officer's coat. The test's prompt addressed this point. Perhaps three out of thirty students could address it. I continued to design my tests like this until I realized that my tests were designed to fail students. This was the very same approach that many of my teachers in Catholic school used when they designed their tests.
I changed my tests and designed them so that the students could pass them. My tests were designed to address the big picture rather than the mundane and obscure. Once I changed my approach, the class began enjoying reading much more.
I created tests that students could pass. Over the course of te grading period, student morale improved, and grades soared to the point that i had to make the tests a bit more analytical and challenging.
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Well that's hardly surprising haha. You make the test easier grades will increase.
Designing tests is not easy. The big names in testing spend millions and have dedicated teams to come up with their tests, and people still pick fault with them. |
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Babala

Joined: 28 Jan 2005 Posts: 1303 Location: Henan
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Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:28 am Post subject: |
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I face similar issues at my university. I am only allowed to fail 10% of a class. I mainly teach writing and believe me, way more than 10% deserve to fail. My university is different from some as students cannot graduate without passing my classes but I do get pressure to pass them through and they get three chances at retests when they fail the class.
What I do is fail the worst students and bump up other scores so that they pass but just with a minimum score of 60%. I don't follow the outline that a certain amount of them should receive 70's, 80's, 90's....
It's frustrating as they are capable of so much better but they would rather do the least amount of work possible than try to improve their skills  |
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OhBudPowellWhereArtThou

Joined: 02 Jun 2015 Posts: 1168 Location: Since 2003
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Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 5:34 am Post subject: |
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| The bear wrote: |
| OhBudPowellWhereArtThou wrote: |
C. The teacher creates tests that by design, the students will fail. I am very familiar with this scenario because this describes my approach in my early years in a U.S. inner city environment. In a seventh grade class, we read Treasure Island. There was one not-very-memorable passage that described the button on an officer's coat. The test's prompt addressed this point. Perhaps three out of thirty students could address it. I continued to design my tests like this until I realized that my tests were designed to fail students. This was the very same approach that many of my teachers in Catholic school used when they designed their tests.
I changed my tests and designed them so that the students could pass them. My tests were designed to address the big picture rather than the mundane and obscure. Once I changed my approach, the class began enjoying reading much more.
I created tests that students could pass. Over the course of te grading period, student morale improved, and grades soared to the point that i had to make the tests a bit more analytical and challenging.
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Well that's hardly surprising haha. You make the test easier grades will increase.
Designing tests is not easy. The big names in testing spend millions and have dedicated teams to come up with their tests, and people still pick fault with them. |
Bear, you miss the point. When you teach EFL language , reading, or literature, it will work to everyone's advantage if students are graded on general comprehension. In language Arts, it very easy for the teacher to base his test upon obscurantism. This is a very ineffective approach for E1 as well as E2 students.
For Oral English, it is imperative that the students know the grading criteria starting From Day One.
Testing based upon what the student knows is much more effective than testing upon what the student doesn't know. It is not a matter of making the test easier. It's a matter of making the test more accurate in evaluating students' comprehension. |
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OhBudPowellWhereArtThou

Joined: 02 Jun 2015 Posts: 1168 Location: Since 2003
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Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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Babala, I feel your pain. I've been there. In my experience, the fault lies directly on the shoulders of the students. I had a similar situation. These are my personal theories:
A. the students are lazy and they believe that there is safety in numbers. If everyone turns in garbage and fails, it is the teacher's fault.
B. Their Chinese English teachers don't require written assignments.
C. Their Chinese English teachers have given up on them, and the students hope that you will too. (I had a very brief discussion with a tenured teacher once and she pretty much expressed those sentiments).
I had a group of public university English majors whose spoken English was impeccable. They were very bright and I liked them a lot and (I believe) they liked me. I had taught them argumentation the previous semester, so I couldn't believe the garbage they were turning in this semester. To this day, I can't put my finger on the problem, but I found a solution.
I arrived for class an hour early each morning and made as many corrections to their papers as possible. There are always students who arrive very early for every class to study and i wanted it to be known that I was doing my job and putting in the effort. When word got out that Teacher got to class an hour early and was correcting papers, pretty soon almost the entire class came in early. (I have no explanation for this).
I required each student to revise his paper and return it to me the following week in a folder that I gave to each student. On top of that, they were given another topic for their weekly essay. That meant that they had TWO papers to write that week. When they returned the following week with more garbage, their papers were returned with instructions for them to revise all of them again. In addition, they wrote short paragraphs in class that required revision. I assigned no grades to any of their work. Pretty soon, they were up to their necks in revision work.
A few weeks into the semester, they realized that they had no grades. The monitor was (apparently) given instructions to ask when they would receive grades. I told them that (like the previous semester in Argumentation) everyone starts with a grade of 100 (or A) for writing a short paragraph telling me who they are, where they're from, and a few other points. (Interestingly, their prose was actually intelligible when they wrote about themselves).
I told the class to bring in their folders with all of their work so that I could assess their progress. Guess what? Most of the class came in the next week with no folders.They had lost them. I told them to buy another folder. It was no big deal that they had lost their previous work because I had seen NO progress. I told them that I will begin assigning grades when they turned in intelligible essays. (If I weren't so fond of these kids and so confident in their abilities, I would have gotten quite angry).
It worked. They knew that I wasn't out to fail them. Incredibly, their take-home essays improved. They weren't cheating because each essay addressed personal topics.
The last hurdle was the required in-class final essay. The students' writing demonstrated drastic improvement, but I knew how much anxiety they experienced with tests, so I used their last in-class essay as a final exam. They had no idea that the assignment was their final exam, so there was no anxiety or any attempt to cheat (which was impossible because the essays were personal narratives). They were even allowed to talk if they wanted. They were allowed full use of their phone dictionaries. (I tried to compel them to buy a large dictionary from the book store, but they got by with their phones).
The last day of class came, and I passed out the roll sheet, and they signed in. I engaged them in chit chat for the first period. I ignored queries about the final. Then break time came. They shuffled out looking very confused. When break was over, the panic started.
What are we going to write about?
I don't think we'll have time to finish.
How long do you want the essays to be?
Why haven't we started?
When I told them that their last in-class essay was their final exam, the reactions were mixed. Some were angry because I had tricked them. Some were relieved, and some looked like they has p**d in their pants.
That last assignment produced nearly-flawless essays, and when I told them that they all scored in the high 90's, their relief was palpable. Some were skeptical because I couldn't return their papers. They had to pick them up from the department.
At one two-year college that actually had a language department, I used similar tactics, but spent less time correcting the papers. I just returned the papers with the comment "Please revise this." They were all second year students. The dean required every student in the International Business program to present a senior thesis. As an incentive for them to get their acts together, I told them that I would be on the thesis committee. I think that scared them shirtless. It turned out that I was asked to serve on the committee. When they walked to the podium to present their paper, some of them looked like they'd pass out.
What worked for me (most of the time) may not work for you, but I think the strategy to compel the students to perform well involves deemphasizing the grade during the grading period and emphasizing progress.
I don't know how you teach. Your pedagogy may be flawless. You might just have a bunch of students who are sick and tired of English and foreign teachers. Maybe they're lazy louts who will never amount to much. That happens too. |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010 Posts: 4724 Location: China
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Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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For Oral English, it is imperative that the students know the grading criteria starting From Day One.
Don't agree Bud.
Oral English is so fleeting and subjective. How do you describe the standard let alone apply it?
40 to 45 students who you see for 2x50 minute spells once a week, for 18 weeks if you're lucky.
NS |
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OhBudPowellWhereArtThou

Joined: 02 Jun 2015 Posts: 1168 Location: Since 2003
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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:18 am Post subject: |
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| Non Sequitur wrote: |
For Oral English, it is imperative that the students know the grading criteria starting From Day One.
Don't agree Bud.
Oral English is so fleeting and subjective. How do you describe the standard let alone apply it?
40 to 45 students who you see for 2x50 minute spells once a week, for 18 weeks if you're lucky.
NS |
You don't tell your students that they are to speak clearly and in complete sentences? If you can't understand them, they have not met a very basic criterion upon which they can be graded. I am sure that you tell your students what is expected of them. You may not spell out how their performance evaluation is weighted, but I can't imagine that you don't tell them what is expected of them. That is broad, but it is a very basic grading criterion.
I don't think we're on the same page regarding grading criteria. |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010 Posts: 4724 Location: China
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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:28 am Post subject: |
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Their dialogues are from the text so the sentences are OK.
For testing mid and end-of-semester* I adopt the 'communicative approach' which seems pretty standard ESL fare these days.
*students prepare their own dialogues on topics chosen from a list.
https://www.teachingenglish.org.uk/article/communicative-approach |
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OhBudPowellWhereArtThou

Joined: 02 Jun 2015 Posts: 1168 Location: Since 2003
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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:44 am Post subject: |
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It doesn't matter which approach to teaching you use. As far as i know, FTs in China are expected to assign grades. If you don't inform the students of the course objectives, how can you grade them?
I know, oral English as western FTs in Chinese public universities are often about as close to a farce as any subject can get, but surely you must evaluate their performance.
LOL. I don't think that we're communicating. |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010 Posts: 4724 Location: China
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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:56 am Post subject: |
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I do evaluate every time I hear each of them speak.
But they compete against each other.
I must pass all students and 60 is the minimum pass grade.
My school requires 60 percent of final mark to be derived from class work so I've got to be 'on to it' each and every class.
As all of my classes are Oral - same book and assessment, I finally grade my 500-odd students against each other. This means the best-in-show really is that.
That person might get 93-95 as a final mark. Runner up 92 or thereabouts
Impossible to grade IELTS style i.e. number of errors.
The setting is just too pressured for that. Also my students speak to each other not to me.
Hope that clarifies. |
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papuadn
Joined: 19 Sep 2016 Posts: 131
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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:29 am Post subject: |
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| Babala wrote: |
| What I do is fail the worst students and bump up other scores so that they pass but just with a minimum score of 60%. I don't follow the outline that a certain amount of them should receive 70's, 80's, 90's.... |
Why not "curve" your results according to their distribution? Recognizing a normal distribution is not "cheating".
I rarely come across FTs who distinguish normative from criterion-based measures yet assert their "standards" are valid . Rarer still, an FT who has evaluated a distribution by its standard deviation and refined their measures.
As another poster said, I feel your pain. The differences between East and West in terms of practice and tradition are challenging to accommodate and approach. Comparing and contrasting an inventory of skillsets is a matter of course for an FT. But imposing standards by "feels" is not the purview of a lone FT.
Defining a set of standards (criteria) is a collaborative procedure related to accreditation and the normalization of measures and not a trivial matter, nor are the differences of scores if a normal distribution is present. A normal distribution provides a meaningful ranking and complies with policy (or the hiring a foreign teacher with "authentic" speech to "grade" a population.)
| Quote: |
| It's frustrating as they are capable of so much better but they would rather do the least amount of work possible than try to improve their skills |
Yet you're likely aware of the effects of the GaoKao's high-stakes and what little socialization a Chinese student experiences in high school. The tertiary level is perceived to be "easier" because the GaoKao has determined one's "place" and students are allowed to attend the relationships of adulthood.
Which is a compelling assignment for a language arts instructor-- what about its endeavor can be organized by a learner's intrinsic motivation? |
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OhBudPowellWhereArtThou

Joined: 02 Jun 2015 Posts: 1168 Location: Since 2003
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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:13 am Post subject: |
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| papuadn wrote: |
Comparing and contrasting an inventory of skillsets is a matter of course for an FT. But imposing standards by "feels" is not the purview of a lone FT.
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I am unsure of your thesis here. Are you suggesting that the teacher not set objectives and standards for the students? Are you suggesting there be no guidelines and that the student should find his own way through the maze of learning a second language?
Setting standards for a class is an imposition? And it is not the purview of "the lone FT"? Is there some sort of Teachers' Bible written by the Illuminati that I haven't been told about?
Instruction by definition requires setting goals and standards. Without them, one would need to rely upon Chomsky's "language organ" that resides somewhere in the human brain. Science has yet to find that language organ.
I appreciate your views, but I don't see how they fit into any class room situation except for one in Shangri-La, |
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papuadn
Joined: 19 Sep 2016 Posts: 131
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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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| OhBudPowellWhereArtThou wrote: |
| I am unsure of your thesis here. Are you suggesting...I appreciate your views, but I don't see how they fit into any class room situation except for one in Shangri-La, |
I'm addressing the OP and forum members who refuse to "pass" students but don't distinguish normative and criterion-based measures and casually use the term "standard".
I'm arguing a normal distribution (bell curve) is of value and its absence indicates a poor measure. Specifically, I addressed Babala's reluctance to apportion percentiles along a mid-range while admitting the best scores were adjusted to pass by a minimum margin: impose.
Babala's complaints, reluctance, and solution are not uncommon, and in my experience (and I'll gamble yours as well) a frequent point of contention among staff: So-and-so's too easy or, alternatively, a hard-ass...
I'm challenging Babala's conclusions in terms of scores relative to another-- normative-- as grounds for a proportional ranking of students (versus an assertion of a "standard") that I suspect Babala would criticize as inflation as I know others have voiced such a perception. Which is why I mentioned a casual use of the word standard (a range of descriptors a teacher defines without audit) is, more often than not, subjective and problematic.
But whatever the objectives and standards teachers might define, if their measure of it is suffering a distribution with a high standard of deviation (flat-lining), its alignment with the curriculum is questionable-- its validity is suspect. |
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OhBudPowellWhereArtThou

Joined: 02 Jun 2015 Posts: 1168 Location: Since 2003
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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, okay. For a moment there I thought that you were a recently graduated education major.
Good luck in your future endeavors. |
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