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Arenta
Joined: 24 Jul 2016
Posts: 125
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 Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
Read the explanation Leno gave and the one from the sticky. |
I read both but this doesn't seem to fit any of the scenarios.
| nomad soul wrote: |
| (The doc is likely to be completely in Arabic.) If you've been told that it's your actual visa, then you should get clarification from the sponsor or the visa agent your sponsor is apparently paying. |
It's in Arabic and I've contacted the sponsor and am waiting for a reply. I was told during the interview that they would pay.
| nomad soul wrote: |
| However, if you're expected to submit your visa application directly to the consulate (without an agent), then your prospective sponsor should provide you with a receipt of payment if they're claiming that your visa application fee was covered up front -- that it's already been paid for and you owe nothing. This scenario is unusual. |
The sponsor told me to take the 'visa' to the embassy. I did and was directed to a nearby visa agent who told me it was an invitation letter and not a visa, that they would apply for a visa on my behalf. I told them to hold on that until I had contacted the sponsor. I'm waiting to get a reply as to why I was told it was a visa when it was an invitation letter only and reminded them that I was told the visa would be paid for in the interview. I expect them to say something along the lines of they meant it would be paid after arriving in the country in the first month's salary.
It seems a bit fishy though. Why not make it plain from the beginning when the money for the visa would be paid and why say it's a visa when it's an invitation letter? Of course only they can answer that but if they're being so unclear from the beginning it's not good sign that they would pay once the teacher is in the country.
| nomad soul wrote: |
Anyway, get proof of payment if this for-profit company claims you owe the consulate nothing.
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Good idea. I agree the whole thing seems unusual. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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There's the invitation letter that indicates why you're being "invited" to KSA. There's also the visa authorization. Both are needed for your visa.
You should have asked for clarification during your interview. Anyway, pose your questions to the sponsor. Be clear with what you're asking. |
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Arenta
Joined: 24 Jul 2016
Posts: 125
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| Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:34 am Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| There's the invitation letter that indicates why you're being "invited" to KSA. There's also the visa authorization. Both are needed for your visa. |
I know that now after being told by the visa agent as I said in my previous post.
| nomad soul wrote: |
| You should have asked for clarification during your interview. Anyway, pose your questions to the sponsor. Be clear with what you're asking. |
I did ask for clarification during the interview as I also said previously. I asked if they would be paying for the visa, they said yes, I asked if it would be sent to me, they said yes. Unless a person has been in this situation before, which I haven't and it seems no one else here has either or haven't mentioned that they have, it's impossible to know that an invitation letter would be sent first and then the visa issued after it. You would have to know the procedure of biz visas which as I mentioned, I didn't when this began. So I asked all necessary questions in the interview based on the little info I had on the procedures of biz visas. All other questions would be completely dependent on knowing the procedure in the first place !
Incidentally, I've not had a reply from the sponsor since contacting him about the invitation letter. Obviously doesn't bode well for being a good place to work at!  |
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hash
Joined: 17 Dec 2014
Posts: 456
Location: Wadi Jinn
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| Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Arenta wrote: |
I read both but this doesn't seem to fit any of the scenarios.....
It's in Arabic and I've contacted the sponsor and am waiting for a reply. I was told during the interview that they would pay........
I'm waiting to get a reply as to why I was told it was a visa when it was an invitation letter only and reminded them that I was told the visa would be paid for in the interview.......
It seems a bit fishy though......
Of course only they can answer that but if they're being so unclear from the beginning it's not good sign that they would pay once the teacher is in the country......
Good idea. I agree the whole thing seems unusual.
Etc, etc. |
What's going on here is very clear to me...... though I guess it isn't to you.....yet.
You're in the midst of what is called (by me) the "Updated Tactics & Strategies" plan being followed by employers/contractors/agents having to do with KSA employment. The target is you, the intention is deception.
The philosophy behind it is quite simple and has been used for millennia. It is to confuse the enemy (or target) with a barrage of half truths, misdirections, inferences, nuances, silences and so forth in an effort to confuse you, weaken your natural defences and to whip you up into such a frenzy that you'll eventually "sign" anything just to put an end to it. (I'll be frank with you.....I use a variant of this "methodology" in my classes instead of the "communicative" approach and have been doing so for years. It works like a charm).
Anyway, you're at that point right now. I can easily tell just by what you write and HOW you're writing, that you're ready to sign......anything.
They've got you just where they want you.
Now when the "real" "contract" arrives, specifying that you pay for just about everything and that you have to "find your own housing" and that they can "send you anywhere there is a need at a moment's notice" and so on, why you'll just go ahead and sign the document and your destiny is sealed. As you board the Saudia flight to Riyadh in a daze, they'll be popping the champagne bottles open celebrating yet another successful hunt.
If you don't think that this is what's really going on, just re-read your postings as objectively as you can.
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Foo_Fighters_Dave
Joined: 09 Dec 2016
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:02 am Post subject: |
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I have to agree with HASH. It sounds like you are desperate to come to Saudi Arabia. Is it worth coming here if you are unsure of little things like what type of visa you are going to have?
Are you a native speaker? The reason I am asking is a lot of threads popped up recently about a terrible company that pulls the same stunts that were written by non native speakers who were desperate to come to Saudi. |
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siologen
Joined: 25 Oct 2016
Posts: 336
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| Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:26 am Post subject: re: well said... |
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| Quote: |
| It is to confuse the enemy (or target) with a barrage of half truths, misdirections, inferences, nuances, silences and so forth in an effort to confuse you, weaken your natural defences and to whip you up into such a frenzy that you'll eventually "sign" anything just to put an end to it. |
This is not just something common to Saudi Arabia, I would say it occurs a lot in the far east also. Luckily (!) never experienced this in Oh-man   |
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Arenta
Joined: 24 Jul 2016
Posts: 125
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| hash wrote: |
What's going on here is very clear to me...... though I guess it isn't to you.....yet. |
Well like I said, I'm new to this biz visa stuff.
| hash wrote: |
| You're in the midst of what is called (by me) the "Updated Tactics & Strategies" plan being followed by employers/contractors/agents having to do with KSA employment. The target is you, the intention is deception. |
Interesting... I was kind of coming to that conclusion myself.
| hash wrote: |
The philosophy behind it is quite simple and has been used for millennia. It is to confuse the enemy (or target) with a barrage of half truths, misdirections, inferences, nuances, silences and so forth in an effort to confuse you, weaken your natural defences and to whip you up into such a frenzy that you'll eventually "sign" anything just to put an end to it. (I'll be frank with you.....I use a variant of this "methodology" in my classes instead of the "communicative" approach and have been doing so for years. It works like a charm).
Anyway, you're at that point right now. I can easily tell just by what you write and HOW you're writing, that you're ready to sign......anything.
They've got you just where they want you. |
Well, no. I'm on the point of completely scrubbing this company totally, due to the frustration. But anyway...
| hash wrote: |
Now when the "real" "contract" arrives, specifying that you pay for just about everything and that you have to "find your own housing" and that they can "send you anywhere there is a need at a moment's notice" and so on, why you'll just go ahead and sign the document and your destiny is sealed. As you board the Saudia flight to Riyadh in a daze, they'll be popping the champagne bottles open celebrating yet another successful hunt.
If you don't think that this is what's really going on, just re-read your postings as objectively as you can.
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You're probably completely right because this level of incompetence is unbelievable even for Saudi. My postings come out of frustration at dealing with this weirdness, not desperation.
Not wanting to confuse this confused saga even more, a quick update to say I had another email from them day before yesterday asking me what the progress was on my "visa" ! I wrote to say they hadn't sent me a visa only an invitation letter and asked when the visa would arrive ! I thought I'd play along just to see what their next move would be.  |
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Arenta
Joined: 24 Jul 2016
Posts: 125
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| Foo_Fighters_Dave wrote: |
| I have to agree with HASH. It sounds like you are desperate to come to Saudi Arabia. Is it worth coming here if you are unsure of little things like what type of visa you are going to have? |
No I'm not desperate to go to KSA, I've been before so know what it's like. Like I said at the beginning, I knew it would be a biz visa to start with because I was told that during the interview. The confusion arose for two reasons: emails describing the visa as a "visit visa" and the OP of this thread alternately using terms like biz visa, visit visa & work visit visa. That's why I asked the original questions.
| Foo_Fighters_Dave wrote: |
| Are you a native speaker? The reason I am asking is a lot of threads popped up recently about a terrible company that pulls the same stunts that were written by non native speakers who were desperate to come to Saudi. |
Yes I am. I don't understand what you mean by stunts pulled by non native speakers. Are you asking me if I'm pulling a stunt here? Sorry if that's not what you mean but you seem to be implying it. I'm not pulling any stunt and am only trying to get information to understand this confused situation. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| Arenta wrote: |
| nomad soul wrote: |
| You should have asked for clarification during your interview. Anyway, pose your questions to the sponsor. Be clear with what you're asking. |
I did ask for clarification during the interview as I also said previously. I asked if they would be paying for the visa, they said yes, I asked if it would be sent to me, they said yes. |
That's rather murky. You should have asked the sponsor whether they pay the visa agent directly, or are you expected to cover the biz visa costs but will be reimbursed by the company after you arrive in KSA. That should have been in writing as well. |
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siologen
Joined: 25 Oct 2016
Posts: 336
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:13 am Post subject: re: biz visa option in Bahrain... |
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Hello all,
Is the chance to get a business visa for the KSA through an agent in Bahrain still available, or is this now no longer viable? Anyone been there, done it, got the t-shirt recently?     ??   |
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Foo_Fighters_Dave
Joined: 09 Dec 2016
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Foo_Fighters_Dave wrote: |
| ]Are you a native speaker? The reason I am asking is a lot of threads popped up recently about a terrible company that pulls the same stunts that were written by non native speakers who were desperate to come to Saudi. |
Yes I am. I don't understand what you mean by stunts pulled by non native speakers. Are you asking me if I'm pulling a stunt here? Sorry if that's not what you mean but you seem to be implying it. I'm not pulling any stunt and am only trying to get information to understand this confused situation.[/quote]
I meant there were several posts by non native speakers concerning a company that pulled several stunts such as not paying them and screwing around with their visa. I didn't know it wasn't worded properly when I wrote it. |
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Arenta
Joined: 24 Jul 2016
Posts: 125
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
That's rather murky. You should have asked the sponsor whether they pay the visa agent directly, or are you expected to cover the biz visa costs but will be reimbursed by the company after you arrive in KSA. That should have been in writing as well. |
Well as they said yes both to paying for the visa and yes it would be sent to me, it's completely reasonable to think they would send it to me already paid for. Otherwise, they would have asked for the money upfront in subsequent emails. As they didn't, there was nothing for me to ask on that score either in the interview or later.
I wish they had asked me for money up front because then I would have told them I wouldn't be paying as it was contrary to what they said in the first place.
Just to be clear, this company is Alasala which I started a thread on last month. I had given up on them because I had not heard anything from them after the interview and being sent the contract, that is until they contacted me with the "visa" which turned out to be only an invitation letter. I told them about this and heard nothing until a couple of days ago when they asked me about the progress of the "visa" and for the second time I told them it was only an invitation letter. Since then, no further contact from them.
When I started the thread asking about them I heard they had also done the same to someone else last year, i.e. interview, sending a contract but then nothing !
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=116553&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 |
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Arenta
Joined: 24 Jul 2016
Posts: 125
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Foo_Fighters_Dave wrote: |
I meant there were several posts by non native speakers concerning a company that pulled several stunts such as not paying them and screwing around with their visa. I didn't know it wasn't worded properly when I wrote it. |
I see. They probably thought they could get away with it with non native speakers. I haven't seen those posts. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:54 am Post subject: |
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| Arenta wrote: |
| Just to be clear, this company is Alasala which I started a thread on last month. I had given up on them because I had not heard anything from them after the interview and being sent the contract, that is until they contacted me with the "visa" which turned out to be only an invitation letter. I told them about this and heard nothing until a couple of days ago when they asked me about the progress of the "visa" and for the second time I told them it was only an invitation letter. Since then, no further contact from them. |
Since you're only interested in a business/work visit visa, you're going to run into some sketchiness. That's the norm for companies that often use these visa types. You might want to think twice about pursuing work on a biz visa with such outfits. |
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Arenta
Joined: 24 Jul 2016
Posts: 125
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| Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:06 am Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| Since you're only interested in a business/work visit visa, you're going to run into some sketchiness. That's the norm for companies that often use these visa types. You might want to think twice about pursuing work on a biz visa with such outfits. |
This is much more than sketchiness, it's downright strange. When they're asked straightforward questions they don't bother replying and only much later reply to ask about the progress of a non-existent visa they claim they've sent.
When I first asked them what the procedure was for the visa I got the reply "in about 3 weeks" ! When they eventually send what turns out to be an invitation letter only and I tell them this, they wait a few weeks before asking what the progress on the visa is ! When I tell them for the second time it's not a visa they just don't reply. I fully expect to get another email at some future point completely ignoring all over again what I've told them and asking me what the progress is on the non-existent visa. Or maybe they won't bother and will contact me again next year,as they did last year and this year and starting the whole fiasco over again. |
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