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The G-stringed Avenger
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 746
Location: Lost in rhyme infinity
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 Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 5:35 am Post subject: Who DOESN'T hate America - hands up! |
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| Although I dislike George W. Bush, I absolutely LOOOOOOVE America. In fact when I get there, I smear soil all over my body while raining kisses and hugs all over the ground, a courtesy I then extend to trees, snakes and interstate highways. Yessir, I love the USA. |
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yaramaz
Joined: 05 Mar 2003
Posts: 2384
Location: Not where I was before
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 7:15 am Post subject: |
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Kinky.
When shall we expect to see George W and Cheney in PVC bondage gear and whipped cream nipple pasties? |
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Chris_Crossley
Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 1797
Location: Still in the centre of Furnace City, PRC, after eight years!!!
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 7:44 am Post subject: GWB and Cheney |
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| Quote: |
| When shall we expect to see George W and Cheney in PVC bondage gear and whipped cream nipple pasties? |
Some creative spark using a computer is bound to come up with something. Remember the old seaside cutouts when you stuck your heads through and people took photos of you for a laugh? I guess that doing this kind of thing on the computer and posting it on the web is just about the nearest way of getting those two in bondage.
Otherwise, you'll just have to imagine it - in one's imagination, at least, one is free to roam without fear of persecution, censorship or restriction. |
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nolefan
Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Posts: 1458
Location: on the run
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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| I have no issues or whatsoever with America or its citizens. The government on the other hand... that's another story. Don't even get me started on homeland security |
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Bindair Dundat
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Posts: 1123
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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I have LOTS of problems with America: The government, the people who elect --or who can't be bothered to elect-- that government, the incredibly trashy, vulgar, popular culture, the fascistic implementation of the notions of racial and gender equality, etc.
But I appreciate the opportunities that America offers to all comers, I love the land and its natural beauty, I value highly the freedom that my American citizenship gives me, and I am grateful for the ideals of achievement and efficacy that American culture nurtures.
And I am one of those "arrogant" Americans who believe that even a mediocre America is still better than 90% of the rest of the world at its best.
BD |
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leeroy
Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 777
Location: London UK
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Any country that made The Simpsons, Southpark and Family Guy can't be all bad. |
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The G-stringed Avenger
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 746
Location: Lost in rhyme infinity
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| Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 2:08 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the insights fellows!
Well, my point is that America and many American people aren't too bad. I like American culture and ideals. I disagree with the actions of the US government but hey - governments come and go.
And when we complain about who dominates world affairs - could be much worse. Communist China, Iran, an Arab coalition, a revived Soviet Union... I'll take the Yanks, for all their flaws. No-one's perfect. |
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Roger
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138
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| Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 2:26 am Post subject: |
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| Bindair Dundat wrote: |
I have LOTS of problems with America:
And I am one of those "arrogant" Americans who believe that even a mediocre America is still better than 90% of the rest of the world at its best.
BD |
Touche! That's the kind of boomerang that must be redirected at the person who released it. No one takes umbrage at anyone saying "I am proud of being..." because that's what EVERYONE says; by saying "my country is be..." you are sowing hatred.
It's a rude box in the ear of those people that live in "90% of the world" outside the U.S.A.; may we infer that you don't know the 10% of the world that you apparently grant a more honourable place than the U.S.A.?
Inevitably one has to counter: "I am proud for not being LIKE YOU!"
And indeed, I am! |
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Roger
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138
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| Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 2:35 am Post subject: |
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| The G-stringed Avenger wrote: |
Thanks for the insights fellows!
And when we complain about who dominates world affairs - could be much worse. Communist China, Iran, an Arab coalition, a revived Soviet Union... I'll take the Yanks, for all their flaws. No-one's perfect. |
"...and when we complain..." You mean: THEY complain, right?
Has it escaped your attention that only Americans say what you claim - that American hegemony is preferable to SU hegemony or "communist Chinese" hegemony?
But since the latter two cases are hypothetical you can't really answer your question. It's true that the SU dominated and colonised a lot of its then allies, but they didn't fight for their independence to fall under American control.
In fact, there are many cases of countries that would have preferred to be dominated by the SU rather than by their de facto ruler.
I don't really believe communism was as bad as how Americans portrayed it. Socialism/communism's human rights infringements and other power excesses were to no small extent prompted by American meddling and hostile actions. The U.S.A. was and still only is intersted in liberating national economies from the yoke of national control, it's not intersted in liberating citizens from dictatorial regimes. |
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The G-stringed Avenger
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 746
Location: Lost in rhyme infinity
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| Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 2:58 am Post subject: |
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What countries preferred to be dominated by the Communist powers? Tibet? Hungary? Czechslovakia? Lithuania?
I also fail to see how American foreign policy triggered Stalin's purges, or China's gulags. These seem to have been motivated by internal security concerns, leadership challenges, etc.
Socialism was supposed to provide a reasonable standing of living for everyone, but, like capitalism, it couldn't house or feed everyone. Unlike capitalism though, socialism took the extra step of stifling individual initiative.
I'm not American, but I think a lot of people would prefer relatively benign American domination to the fanatical theocracy of Iran's rulers or the paranoia and oppression of communism. |
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4nic8r
Joined: 18 Mar 2004
Posts: 68
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| Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:22 am Post subject: |
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I'm not American, but I like the US.. however, I think whoever is the President is going to have a tough 4 years, no matter what they do.
I also think they should worry more about domestic issues than international, but that's just my .012 cents. (at current exchange rates) |
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Bindair Dundat
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Posts: 1123
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| Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Roger wrote: |
Touche! That's the kind of boomerang that must be redirected at the person who released it. No one takes umbrage at anyone saying "I am proud of being..." because that's what EVERYONE says; by saying "my country is be..." you are sowing hatred. |
Oh, how sad.
| Roger wrote: |
| It's a rude box in the ear of those people that live in "90% of the world" outside the U.S.A.; may we infer that you don't know the 10% of the world that you apparently grant a more honourable place than the U.S.A.? |
No. I do believe that there are other countries that have significant advantages over the U.S., in various areas of endeavor, but none that beat us hands down.
| Roger wrote: |
Inevitably one has to counter: "I am proud for not being LIKE YOU!"
And indeed, I am! |
That is reassuring.
BD |
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Bindair Dundat
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Posts: 1123
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| Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Roger wrote: |
| The G-stringed Avenger wrote: |
Thanks for the insights fellows!
And when we complain about who dominates world affairs - could be much worse. Communist China, Iran, an Arab coalition, a revived Soviet Union... I'll take the Yanks, for all their flaws. No-one's perfect. |
"...and when we complain..." You mean: THEY complain, right?
Has it escaped your attention that only Americans say what you claim -
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But *he's* not American. That makes you demonstrably wrong, doesn't it?
Nah. You couldn't be wrong.
| Roger wrote: |
| I don't really believe communism was as bad as how Americans portrayed it. |
Oh, I'm sure you're right, as usual. Doubtless you have some insight into this that millions of Poles, Hungarians, and Rumanians --to choose some convenient examples-- didn't have.
Nazism was fairly benign, too. We just didn't *like* it.
BD |
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Roger
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 5:14 am Post subject: |
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| The G-stringed Avenger wrote: |
What countries preferred to be dominated by the Communist powers? Tibet? Hungary? Czechslovakia? Lithuania?
I'm not American, but I think a lot of people would prefer relatively benign American domination to the fanatical theocracy of Iran's rulers or the paranoia and oppression of communism. |
I see!
No beef with your rhetorical question whether the Balts or Hungarians liked the Russian bearhug, but I can safely assure you they never imagined in its place the American domination others have to endure.
I think yours is a problem of perceptions; isn't it obvious that those countries that are in immediate neighbourhood of the U.S.A. have the greatest resentment over being remote-controlled from Washington, U.S.A., whereas the SU's allies were just as eager to jump ship?
Iranians no doubt overwhelmingly want the theocracy to go, but they are not likely to ask for American hegemony.
As a non-American I feel a lot safer almost anywhere in the world I may go. Why is that?
And, while communism was the attempt that you described, America's belligerent refusal to come to terms with the socialist camp was one of the prime reasons why the world lived so dangerously for decades. |
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Chris_Crossley
Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 1797
Location: Still in the centre of Furnace City, PRC, after eight years!!!
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 5:39 am Post subject: US belligerency |
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Roger wrote:
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| America's belligerent refusal to come to terms with the socialist camp was one of the prime reasons why the world lived so dangerously for decades. |
Indeed so. One only has to look at the most disastrous examples of US belligerency both within and outside the US itself, including the McCarthyist witch-hunts of the 1950s (causing people like Charlie Chaplin to leave a country they had lived in and loved for decades) and the war in Vietnam. The US governments of the day certainly shot themselves in the proverbial foot at those times by going way too far. They, like the Bush administration for their "reasoning" for invading Iraq, may have had their justifications for launching these campaigns, yet the point comes where people around the world become nauseated at the behaviour of the so-called greatest "democracy" around the world.
I have read some messages on this forum and other forums where Americans say that they feel uncomfortable about being US citizens because they are, as teachers, being asked questions, which they are uncomfortable about answering regarding "their" government's actions surrounding the foreign policies of the day. I sympathise with those people and hope that they understand why other people from around the world are so anxious to know all the answers to these kinds of questions, even if they are totally unrelated to teaching.
As other posters have mentioned, we expatriates are supposed to be ambassadors for our own home countries, yet our flesh must crawl whenever our elected governments act in a way suggestive of utter paranoia. It isn't our fault if one country attacks another for whatever "justifiable" reason - we are mere ESL teachers, not political scientists, yet sometimes we are called upon to act like them, as somehow we are guests on CCTV-9's "Dialogue" programme.
Fortunately for me, I'm in a primary school, and I don't get asked such questions. Just wait until I go to teach at a university, though! |
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