Job Discussion Forums

[zulu]

In my experience [3 times in China], many expats are as big a pain in the rump as any Chinese. Yes, all the horror stories you describe have also happened to me. I had a wildly incompetent Foreign Officer who needed to be taken care of and bailed out of trouble contstantly. The other foreign teachers hated him and the system so much that the atmosphere was often blue with invective, so to speak. I bravely endured [somebody had to] and earned the gratitude of the Director, a wonderful reference letter and an invitation to return "anytime". So, suck up -- it pays off. Of course, if the situation is unendurable, as it was when I had rats scurrying around my room, then you have to get mad and stay mad until the problem is fixed. In short, pick your battles.

Back to expats being a pain: many are spoiled, petulant, and uncooperative -- the reality is that unless you had trouble back home and came through it gracefully, you are not going to sail smoothly through working for a Chinese school. If you were a person for whom life was easy, you haven't got a chance in China because life is hard there, even for teachers. In my opinion, expats need to learn how to get along with the Chinese far more than the reverse. It is, after all, their country. We can always go home to America or Britain or wherever perfection resides.

[J.D.]

I read in so many ads that the foreign teacher is paid so much better than the local teacher that I wondered how they could survive on such a small amount of salary. I see that same comment repeated here.

I have done some snooping around and I think that something is missing from the understanding on this. May I share what I have been told and maybe you could ask some questions where you work and see if I have been missinformed, again.

A uni teacher may make a salary of 1,000 rmb per month but that is what we in the west know as base pay. Then there are the bonusus paid at the end of each semester and another annual bonus. There are also discretionary holiday bonus payments and various project participation bonus payments. There is a working unit house provided free of charge but the teacher gets the title and may sell it when they move on or retire and move away. Or, if they do not need it, they can rent it out for extra income. The work unit also pays certain additional expenses and takes care of the teacher for life.

I know one uni lecturer with a BA and 11 years on the same job who is paid 1,000 rmb a month. He manages to wear 2,500 rmb name brand suits. He has no ambition to be promoted to associate professor as all is well right where he is.

Have we overlooked that our 3,500 rmb per month is less than my lecturer friend gets in total compensation?

Am I out of line suggesting we compare total compensation packages rather than salaries?

[Minhang Oz]

The last poster is correct. Many Chinese teachers are on an "iron ricebowl" deal. Senior classroom teachers at my school get 4000 a month which includes the bennies mentioned above. Teaching couples are buying 500,000 rmb new apartments near the Shanghai subway- this is common. My wife, a casual part time Chinese English teacher gets 50 rmb/hour; I'd suggest a higher pay rate than some FE's. Yet universities cry poor and offer 3000 salaries to foreign teachers who accept them,guaranteeing low pay for their successors. I've had little trouble negotiating a salary nearly three times that. In return I do everything possible to give a good return on that investment, and have just been invited to sign a three year contract. Those of us who know we are good teachers with plenty to offer should place value on our expertise and experience, and try to raise the benchmark, as its pretty low at the moment.

[yaco]

I echo the sentiments expressed by Minhang Oz and JD.

I have visited the homes of the Dean and Professor of the Foreign Language Department from my school and was staggered by how large and how beautifully decorated they are. At the Vice Deans house he even had a machine that dried dishes after they had been washed in the dishwasher. Mind Boggling !!!!!

Owning or purchasing 300,000 RMB houses on salaries of 4 to 6000 rmb per month, Does not make sense !!!

Please explain where I have gone wrong !!!!!!!

[J.D.]

One of the Vice Presidents of Shanghai Tong ji University lives in a very posh penthouse which cost over 2. mil rmb.

If you search the ChinaDaily archives you can find the story about his arrest or detention for corruption, so there are limits. The limit is - share and share alike, This is communist China still. Do not hoard but share with your leaders, cadres and comrades then you will not get busted.

There is enough for everybody at the top.

People's Daily ran a recent article about the peasants being left behind. REALLY? Wonder why? Redistributing the wealth has not trickled down to them yet and may never! Nixon and Reagan are the western heroes in Beijing.

[Minhang Oz]

Actually Yaco,when you do the maths, if there's a couple on 4,000 each,and one salary pays household expenses and the other the mortgage, I'm sure they're no worse off than a middle class western couple with one kid. A 15 year mortgage, a property that's 3 or 4 times the value once it's paid off etc. One of our drivers and his wife bought a 200,000 rmb apartment on around 1500 a month. Six months later it can sell for 250,000 - that's easy money, and the story of Shanghai at the moment.

[Roger]

Yaco,
you asked me for clarification on "Chinese teachers working hard". I did not mean they are working "hard" in the sense of working intensively. I concur with Chris who pointed out that they often work a lot fewer hours - it is true many do the absolute minimum of 6 or 8 lessons a week (and do a lot of moonlighting). Although, to be honest, I don't understand why anybody should go moonlighting to raise their income level when they can earn as much by working as many hours at their own school.
What I did mean was that our Chinese colleagues have to attend weekly meetings. These eat into their spare time. It may be a whole Wednesday afternoon, it may be two afternoons. From some conversations I had, my colleagues positively hated these get-togethers with their superiors. And why shouldn't they? They have to act sycophantically, they have to listen to pompous self-aggrandising speeches by bigwigs, and they have no control over the time - it may drag on well into late evening...

As for the iron-rice bowl jobs:
They do exist, to be sure, but they are fading out of existence! And where they still exist they are a kind of double-edged sword: the lucky teacher cannot quit his or her job without getting a formal letter of release from the superiors at their school - which is known to be denied in many occasions!

I appreciate that Chinese salary packages are well padded even if their nominal pay is somewhat lower than mine: First thing, they get their pay twelve times a year, whereas many of us are paid only during eleven months at the most (unpaid holidays). In addition, they can buy home property at a truly advantageous price. At Nanhai Normal School, one of my colleagues bought a 3-room flat for 40'000 RMB. On the private market, his flat would probably easily fetch double that amount, and he is entitled to resell it!

Still, I feel we are not too badly off. Last year, I was treated the same as my colleagues - twelve months paid, three outings at school expense, one holiday trip of one week subsidised by the school. It was my best experience in China. Some of you may remember how happy I was!
However, my second year at the same school started off somewhat less graciously. I have in fact not been really happy any one week at the same school! What has gone wrong?
I may be wrong, but I have in vain tried to find a more rational explanation: My formerly best colleagues have turned unfriendly, throwing spanners into the works from time to time, causing embarrassing troubles. We even have a second expat. The current one actually is the third nativen English teacher in 9 months.Two expats have left in the intervening months, partly due to extraneous reasons, partly because of having been cold-shouldered by my colleagues.
I don't want to rant here - my fault if I have not had the courage to walk out of my job, I had opportunities, and I spurned them all. What I want to say by way of shedding some light on our privileged situation is that my colleagues are no doubt jealous of us expats! I was their first expat teacher to enjoy all these rights. Previously, my school had to make do with temps or part-timers.
I put in my time for regular lessons, and hardly more. Yes, I do arrive almost one-and-a-half hours early due to bus schedules. I used to surf on the Internet at the school - provoking one of those conflicts that usually start on a very low intensity ("Oh, Roger, YOU are using MY computer AGAIN? Okay, I will return in a little while..."), but increase in intensity because the same situation may repeat itself (even if the person never actually says that she wants to use the computer - she will complain to others, and what goes round comes around to you).
Anyway, the salary they get is two thirds of what I make, yet they put in double the time, including attending to classes before they begin (we are a kindergarten).
What's more, they had to compose a teaching plan, whereas I was never asked what i was going to do with the children in my classes (not that I do not have a long-term plan ready to show). This too has given rise to some comments.

And here is another school that has hired two teachers at the same time, in fact a married couple, he a Westerner, she a Chinese: He gets 8000 RMB, working 22 hours a week, she makes 1500 RMB doing 35 hours a week!

[chastenosferatu]

Roger, the reason for teaching at another location rather than their own school is because it will increase their guanxi. Doing someone else a favor, more contacts, new circle of acquaintances it adds up after a lifetime and they are stuck here unlike us.

[yaco]

Dear Roger.

I read your post with great interest. You made a number of significant points which make sense.

Doing investigative work for the last 2 days, I have discovered the following information.

At my college the Chinese teachers standard contract is 12 hours per week. Many of the techers pad their salary by working 24 to 28 hours per week. I believe this is determined by ' friends in high places '.

Does this seem right ?

[Steiner]

Hey! Our school works the Chinese teachers like mad, but otherwise they treat teachers pretty well. The gift from the school to every teacher for May holiday was 20 kg of pork. So my wife and I won't be buying meat for awhile.
Also, the quarantine was lifted today. We're going travelling, we'll let y'all know if we catch SARS....Has anyone else gone anywhere lately?

[hubei_canuk]

Hi Steiner,

I love changsha. Used to work for Ludshan International. Let us know how the SARS atmosphhre is there. Got some good chinese friends there .. a family.. always go to the night clubs and discos and late night spots with them.. they are "Ye Mao Zi" (night cats).
...
BTW i got 2 personal friends working south of Changsha .. almost 2 years. They are Zambian with an British Education. 2 guys in their 20's. They are fed up with the small city and want to get to a big one like Changsha.
Can you help out at all?

[Steiner]

Canuk--we won't be going through Changsha, we're heading to Zhangjiajie. And since we ourselves live an hour and a half west of Changsha we don't really have any contacts there. We just head over for the day when our own small town gets too boring or we run out of peanut butter. So I'm afraid I can be of absolutely no help to you. Sorry

[hubei_canuk]

Zhangjaijie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
--------------------
Wonderful.. you can spend a month there.
Take a flashlight sine qua non.
Everybody gets caught waking by the river in the dark where they learn the meaning of "pitch" as well as "break a leg".
.......
Be sure and catch the oldest bridge in the world.
aka "First Bridge under heaven"
...
First cross it.
Second go to another point to see what you crossed.
Third Faint.