Job Discussion Forums

[Mike_2003]

[Gomez]

Ghost, are you the smartest person ever to be born? You write as if it were so. You're never going to win this argument with people who live here, like it here and even have families here. If you want to talk about two faces on a culture (a nice outward face, and then a devious, cheating inside face) then go ahead and write posts in the forums of every country listed on this website. You may have heard, people in Texas tied a black man to the back of their car and dragged him down gravel roads until he was torn apart. And that was in the 1990's. Until 40 years ago in the US (where I�m from), many places had two entrances, one for whites, one for blacks. Only 40 years ago! (This is not an invitation to rip on the USA, which is about the easiest thing in the world to do these days. There's no need to point out the social problems facing the US and why it's seemingly senselessly violent). I've actually never seen or heard of the aforementioned things happening in Turkey. In fact, Ghost, most people on this site are showing you two faces. Writing to you patiently, calmly, nicely, but in fact on the inside, I can bet that their actual feelings are not so nice and calm. You're an idiot if you continue this cr*p about how rude Turks are. These people, unlike Canadians and Americans, but like most of the rest of the world are used to getting screwed on a regular basis. They are used to their banks closing and the owners running off with all the money. They're used to getting locked out any big trade deals happening in the world. They're used to earthquakes leveling their buildings and the contractors escaping punishment even though they made low quality houses under the housing code. It is simply amazing that people here still extend a warm hand, still invite you into their homes, and still offer things to near strangers. My father once hitchhiked from university in Michigan back home to New York City. A poor as dirt man picked him up in his ragged car. The guy had almost nothing. He offered my dad a cigarette and offered him to keep the whole pack. When a people who have almost nothing offer you whatever they do have, then part of their youth population maybe cuts loose sometimes, maybe decides to be stingy once in a while, I certainly wouldn't call them stupid and rude, or whatever other excrement you wrote in your endless, mindless posts above. I appreciate that you were trying very calmly to argue your point, which, though we agree that kids (who are sent to expensive schools) are spoiled, it can probably be said that private school kids anywhere in the world are known to be spoiled. I used to buy my drugs from the rich kids in high school. The poor kids never sold it and never got arrested like the rich ones. Sure, we will agree that real estate agents here are crooks. Yeah, internet cafes right after schools get out are noisy and too smoky. But, get it into your head that we LIKE this place! We like being here. You didn't, fine. Go away then. If you want to write interesting, informative posts please continue, but really, seriously, no one cares about the little kids in Montreal learning their second or third language with ease. Great, give them all a cookie. Who cares how and why Chinese learn their languages. You're spouting theories and opinions and while opinions are always nice to hear and think about, you've done enough of them. As you've seen by the refusal for this thread of posts to die, people do not agree with you. Rave all you want about your experiences and your love for Canadian students and how well they pick up a language (sure, I know you�re Canadian and so that�s the most common reference you can use) and give your opinions of Turkey and about teaching here, but you simply must understand that there is a limit up to which we will read and think thoughtfully about your opinions. For me, that limit is passed. I do not appreciate hearing how all of the people in this country are the same, all lie, all have two faces (who in the world doesn�t? Montreal students?), all are rude. You were here a good long time, and though you lived down on the southern coast, you don�t know everything. The fact that someone hasn�t climbed into your bedroom at night and hollowed out your chest cavity is amazing. You�ve managed to offend and belittle with great ease some of my closest and most treasured friends and you�ve done it on an internet forum. Do you speak this way to people�s faces? �Well Ghost thinks you�re a nice host and your wife is a good cook, but really he bets you�re a swindling jerk and she would get on her back for a six pack of Schlitz and a pack of Camels.� I don�t care a bit what other countries you went to. It doesn�t matter how well you know the difference between Spanish and Hungarian and the difficulties. All cheer aloud as you walk down the street for you know the languages of Sri Lanka and why people speak what and why they hate each other. Lay of this tirade against Turks and Turkey. For someone with so many opinions about each of those, you show surprisingly little knowledge about them. Go pick up �Turkey: A Modern History� from Eric Zurcher. Read up on the formation of this country and the distribution of power and wealth. And then�well, then shut up. Or shut up before you read it. It doesn�t matter really.

Now, please please please write a long letter in creepy third person and point out the mistakes I�ve made and narrow-sightedness I�ve shown. Point out how my experiences are not the norm and how the people I�ve met �must be workers from the American Consulate, and are used to American culture�. Make more references to Montreal students and students in Saigon. (It�s so nice to hear which students have trouble learning French in Montreal and which ones have thick accents). Tell me how I should travel more and then I�ll learn that Turks really are two-faced and rude. And don�t forget to mention that I must not be going to internet cafes. This is a personal attack on you. Don�t mistake it. But enough from your wisdom bag. This site is supposed to be for people who have valuable information to give, questions to ask, advice to offer, and advice to ask for. You lived here what, 6 months? Now you don�t live here anymore. Please restrict yourself to posting helpful information and not (as I have done) make personal attacks and drool out over and over again your personal dislikes and your negative experiences. Some of us share the negative experiences you had and like you have been to internet cafes after school, yet there�s no point and no benefit to harping on about it as you�ve done. Especially after so many others have politely said, �I would disagree with that Ghost.� You just simply don�t stop man, and speaking for myself, it�s enough. Anyone else agree? I would bet there probably are people who do agree. But go ahead and write a snide post directed to me. I invite you to. You have the right to do it.

[yaramaz]

Thank you, Gomez, for saying aloud what has been stewing in my head for so long. I'm seconding what you said. Very loud 'Ayes' all around.

One thing to note however:

you said:

[corall]

hahaha!!!! corall suggests that gomez doesn't hold back! corall wonders if gomez might have forgot to say a few things? corall thinks a lot of people might have been thinking what gomez just ranted. nice job.

(my third person isn't as perfected as ghost's is, i apologize)

[dmb]

Ding ding. Round one to Gomez

[ghost]

If you read back through the threads, you will see that Ghost also wrote about many positive aspects of Turkish life. But of course, there is always a human tendency to focus on the negatives, and Gomez is certainly no different from the vox populi, when one reads her tirade.

Perhaps one is not being politically correct enough for her tastes. A forum should be a place where one tells things as they are, and prospective teachers should know about the possible problems they might encounter when teaching in a K-12.

Yes Turks, in general are quite hospitable and charming, certainly more so than the ``average`` North American (Canadians included), but that does not mean that their system is ideal.

The issue for many people here, deals with the way private schools are run and administered, and if this were not the case, you would not have such a high attrition rate from foreign teachers in those K-12`s. The numbers speak louder than all the rhetoric on this forum.

[Theresa]

Ok İll start out reasonable. So Ghost has been thru a lot of culture shock here and elsewhere and has probably travelled too much on his/her own in the last year. İ admit that İ havent been too kind at times about life here but then İm still here abd the culture shock is now coming in gentler waves as İ settle in . My guess however is that Ghost doesnt have anything else to do but write posts on this site ( and how many others İ wonder?).

Ghost if İm correct then listen to this: everytime you start a new thread İ speed read your diatribe and pay attention to what the others say. Feel bad? Well stop then. Ghost you are extremely tedious and youre lucky that that İve just read Gomezs vent which calmed me down.

Gomez: thank you very much for doing something that should have been done a long time ago.

PS Ghost if İm right about how much time you have on your hands do something constructive with it . There are the orphanages for example. İm sure that the kids there would really appreciate someone giving them their time to teach the English and maybe it would ground you too. Dont say that its not poss as İ know someone who dıd just that. Failing that there are the gypsy kids who dont get to go school ( theres UNİCEF sponsored project here in Turkey to help them). You may even have something interesting to say at the end of it. You may even learn to stop thinking about yourself. Get a grip and get on with life.

Personally-now emboldened by Gomez-İm going to stop reading Ghosts posts

[ash]

word

[ghost]

[OzBurn]

I enjoy Ghost's posts. He tends to over-generalize, but so do many other people (I know I do), and I take what he says with a grain of salt. He's an intelligent and thoughtful man who has travelled widely. Maybe he overreacts to certain behavior, but we all have our buttons. There's no need to go off on him.