Job Discussion Forums

[blue jay]

If you want to see some

[king kakipi]

If Western women were not trying to live up to the `Super Women` image promoted so heavily in the 80s and 90s they would create fewer problems for themselves. I remember having a long conversation with a (W) women who was an expert in this field (she had a Phd). She said that forcing women to try to believe that they never needed the help of men for anything, when most of them still have a basic subconscious desire to be protected by their knight in shining armour, was to the detriment of women themsleves ( abit like wanting to have your cake AND eat it)

Personally, as I write what may be my last post on this subject (sorry chi-chi, you will miss them I know), I just find J women more feminine and therefore more attractive. They are no less intelligent as some W women here have said/implied. In my case I am having conversations with them in THEIR second language, not mine, but when they speak English well they are well able to express opinions on a wide range of subjects (shock, horror, some of them even GRADUATE from Universities!!). They may suffer somewhat from a restricted view of history due to what the powers that be allow them to study at school, but that applies equally to J men.

Finally, J women seem to SMILE more (I find that kind of attractive). As I met my wife after work yesterday she greeted me with a huge grin and twinkling eyes, as she always does (even after 6 years with someone like me!!) Kinda makes you happy, you know........

[chi-chi-]

Well, um, I guess it's time for me to be a smart-butt again, but here goes:
Why do men always say "my JAPANESE wife", like it's some big accomplishment or something? If I were dating a black man-which many Western AND Japanese do-hypothetically, of course-it would sound kind of silly if I started every conversation about him with "my black boyfriend....um, he's so much more intelligent than white men, and he actually shaves his stubble more".
Most people, at least where I live, would look at me like the village idiot. It would be like on 3rd rock from the sun, where the dude's like "I HAD SEX AGAIN!"....So? Anyone can do that.
But I digress.
People say that women are the catty, competitive ones, but these days, it looks like the guys have overtaken us on that, trying to make us competitive, while most of the women (no matter what our races) are looking at this thread, like huh? This is why I say men today have become quite feminized. It's all about the competition, and trying to make women compete for them, illustrated by the likes of stupid reality tv shows like "Who Wants to Marry My Dad" and other such foolishness.
Historically speaking, this has not ever been the case, usually quite the opposite (the caveman club thing was more than just rumor). Men used to have to chase women and compete for THEM.
I don't expect this new foolish trend to survive for more than a couple of generations. The disintergrating family unit does not lend itself to long-term survival, nor do biological species when male and female cease to mate with each other on a widespread scale.

[TokyoLiz]

King,

Who are these western women you're talking about? It's weird...A lot of the Japanese women I've met who are in their 30s and 40s think the way you've just described. They believe that they don't need men in their lives, and believe they can be successful without a knight on a white horse. When I tell them that I want to find a good partner who will support me and who I can make a life with, they look at me like I'm weird. Needless to say, I don't hang around with these women for long.

I think a number of the men who've posted on this thread are a little underinformed. There are many Japanese women who fit your description of the western uberwoman that you've described and found to be unattractive.

For those of you who've found smiling, feminine, intelligent partners, I'm happy for you.

It's really weird...Back home, I'm told that my smile, my overt feminity, my intelligence are very atttractive. And I'm not Japanese. Interesting, eh?

I guess I'm a victim of stereotyping. Foreign men expect me to be more like the western uberwoman, but I'm just not. Someone implied earlier in the thread that I'm an angry western woman. I'm not what you guys would expect.

If some of the women who've posted here get testy, it's because some of you guys imply that it's black and white - Japanese women are dainty, intelligent, smiley and fun and that somehow western women aren't. That's gonna hurt.

About Japanese men...

I've met so many Japanese men, and dated a few, that have utterly blasted any expectations I've had . They're gentlemanly, sexy, fun, serious, thoughtful and assertive. Sure, before I met my last boyfriend, I had a certain image of what a Japanese guy is like. Well, from my experience with him, I've learned that Japanese guys are charming in ways that are very different from Canadian men.

Buying a stereotype is easy. Seeking out people and learning about who they really are is much harder.

[blue jay]

Tokyo Liz..you took the words right out of my mouth! Ditto!

I'm the same way as you...I have always been considered "feminine" which, funny enough, is described in the dictionary as being: a characteristic of or appropriate to women & I have "femininity": the quality or nature of the female sex. (definitions that could really cover all women of all races, religions & nationalities)

I smile a great deal too..

My Japanese female friends fit your description quite aptly as well. Most of them in their late 20's & 30's, single, or dating, all working, all quite independent women.

For example, one of my Japanese friends in Osaka bought her own apt. and fixed it up really nice & now is working free-lance because she said she was "tired of working for a male boss" who doesn't listen to her views.

Another Japanese co-worker who taught with me, headed off to Australia to pursue her Ph.D. She was only one of many highly intelligent Japanese women that I met teaching English at one of the English Language Schools. I noticed that there were more Japanese women teaching English than Japanese men.

I also met some truly impressive Japanese women students:

One who is a doctor.

Another who is a jazz singer, vocal coach, housekeeper & a pharmacist.

Another who works as a police officier in Kyoto & has a black belt in karate & judo.

The women I met in Japan were truly inspirational & both "feminine" & "feminists"!

(feminist: active on the behalf of women's rights & interests)

I met a lot of Japanese men who were like you described also. Two of my favourite Japanese male students were; a couple of middle managers of different Japanese companies who liked to talk about a variety of topics

I agree with this statement whole-heartedly about Japanese men when I think of the Japanese boyfriend I had there, it truly fits him to a tee:

[king kakipi]

TokyoLiz and Blue Jay:-

Great to hear about these independant J women you know; now are they the 'exception' or the 'rule'?

I should have prefaced every statement I made with:-
(a) Usually
(b) In the main
(c) In the majority of cases
(d) All of the above

How presumptous of me to assume that people would understand that I was speaking GENERALLY........

*******************************************************
Chi-chi:-

In regard to your posts, I should say that:-
(a) Always
(b) 100% of the time
(c) In all cases
(d) All of the above
I cannae make head nor tail of what you are havering about

[AgentMulderUK]

Nice post, King. Good to some intelligence around the place.
________________________________________________________

Isn't it strange how some other people don't seem to read anyone else's posts.....

They just splurt the same old thing in defense of something that was neither called for, or even necessary.

It really feels like you have to spell everything out, like King said in the last post.
________________________________________________________

Anyway, in summary we can see from the results of male opinion on this thread (which is of course biased, and why not) that Asian women win the Gold Medal for being lovely and all-round ideal companions for us men here

I suppose you 'western' ladies will have to just be content with Silver & Bronze, whilst here in Japan.

And I use the term 'ladies' in earnest here (with one notable exception - she knows who she is)
It was nice reading you girls' opinions, despite the inevitable potshots we took at each other along the way.

I hope we can all talk again about different topics that won't cause such a divide!

Over and OUT
Agent M
______________________________________________

[king kakipi]

[denise]

Capergirl--

I agree. I was shocked to wake up this morning and find your thread missing, only to find more anti-woman animosity on both this and the "in defense of..." thread.

Why the double-standard? I am very disappointed.

Oh, wait... I'm a western woman... I guess that means I am ANGRY.

d

[denise]

[PAULH]

[PAULH]

This thread has been referred to the Moderators forum.

Grow up, people.

[AgentMulderUK]

[denise]

Really, AgentMulder, can't you just drop it? Must you really have the last word?

d

[AgentMulderUK]