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Japanese & western women's friendships..
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The G-stringed Avenger

Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 746
Location: Lost in rhyme infinity

Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 10:30 am Post subject:

blue jay wrote:

Well..I've been reading all the posts on this thread & the other two threads & am about to give up on all discussions on these points already!
It's too depressing. Ok so are we now going to take a measuring stick & do a study on western women vs Japanese women's ability to stand up for themselves in different situations?

Dear Blue Jay,

sorry if you've gotten offended, all I was saying is part of the reason why friendships are so strong between Western and Japanese women is because each sees something in the other's personality (aspects often stemming strongly from culture) that they like and admire. The way a Western woman might react to a situation is different and, to a Japanese woman, totally cool and worthy of emulation. They like what they see in Western women and so seek their friendship. And vice-versa!

blue jay

Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 119
Location: Vancouver, formerly Osaka, Japan

Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 11:13 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Why do all western women get lumped together? I have the same sense about myself - I'm not that assertive, and I tend to hang back and think about how I feel about a given situation before I react. I'm the last person to come out swinging when I'm offended.

So, some western women are assertive, take no *beep*, etc. I'm learning from the women around me, who happen to be mostly Japanese, to assert my identity as a woman, a Canadian, as me, more clearly

Well-worded, TokyoLiz, that's exactly how I feel! Case in point:

When I lived with my friend C. (who's Japanese) she was much more assertive than me (a Canadian). It does seem like we lump everyone together into catagories of "western" vs Japanese woman, when really I came across some very assertive women in Japan!

I'm a lot like you I tend to hold back and wait rather than to express myself strongly. I also have a tendency to "beat around the bush" and not speak directly but rather indirectly, something I found was quite the norm in Japan.

My friend C. (Japanese) often told me to be more direct! Wink

She also remarked that because I was so quiet, she wondered if I was truly "Canadian"?! (i.e. the stereotype of the outgoing "western" woman)

Yeah. How you reacted to the Henna Ojisan would be my kind of reaction too. And yeah..I found that being in Japan changed my way of reacting to things, I did become more assertive after being roommates with my friend C. in Japan.

blue jay

Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 119
Location: Vancouver, formerly Osaka, Japan

Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 11:30 pm Post subject:

Quote:

sorry if you've gotten offended, all I was saying is part of the reason why friendships are so strong between Western and Japanese women is because each sees something in the other's personality (aspects often stemming strongly from culture) that they like and admire. The way a Western woman might react to a situation is different and, to a Japanese woman, totally cool and worthy of emulation. They like what they see in Western women and so seek their friendship. And vice-versa!

Yeah I agree with what you've written but I think it goes both ways. As you say vice-versa. When I think of how my friend C. reacts to situations I think its pretty cool & worthy of emulation. And I sincerely hope she feels the same way about me. But actually in terms of some of my other friendships with Japanese women, I found the qualities that made for good friendship was in the fact that our personalities were so similiar.

For example:

My 2 friends M. & M. (I had a group of 5 Japanese female friends who all had the first initial M. Wink

) made me feel comfortable because we could simply sit on the train in each other's company & not utter a word but still feel connected to each other as friends. As in "silence is golden".

I felt I could be sensitive, kind, empathetic, caring, etc. in the presence of these Japanese women and it was considered a strength rather than a weakness. That shyness or being quiet was considered *ok*. That they could see that it could also be found in someone who is considered "western" and that these qualities are universal in women. No matter what culture or nationality..

TokyoLiz

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan

Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:35 am Post subject:

Blue jay wrote

Quote:

I felt I could be sensitive, kind, empathetic, caring, etc. in the presence of these Japanese women and it was considered a strength rather than a weakness.

From my home community, I've learned values of sensivity to other cultural ways, the need to preserve one's own culture, the universality of good manners, sincerity and a sense of humour. All these things I've brought with me to Japan.

I find that the tension between image and reality in Japan has affected me in a detrimental manner. People, both foreign and Japanese, expect me to be a certain way - in other words, an assertive, expressive, powerful Western woman.

Sometimes, though, the image that foreigners and Japanese project on me, of the overtly sexual Madonna type, the kick bu t t Laura Croft type, cloud my view of myself. These images from so-called North American life are pervasive. I have a hunch that's where foreigners get their cues about the foreign woman role model.

I really respect Japanese women who are good role models. They're tough, sensitive, feminine and assert themselves in a way that is culturally conditioned. The really cool women in my life are willing to learn about `Western` culture and pick up aspects that they find appealing and valuable. I hope I can do the same, learning from Japanese women's culture.

blue jay

Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 119
Location: Vancouver, formerly Osaka, Japan

Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:31 pm Post subject:

TokyoLiz wrote:

Quote:

I can relate to that statement whole-heartedly, I feel like I learnt a lot about sensitivity to other cultures from my heritage. My grandmother came from another country when she was in her teens and she passed on her good manners, her genuine compassion for others and also a good humoured approach to life. I took hopefully many of these traits with me to Japan and was pleased to see them reflected in others and in myself.

Quote:

I find that the tension between image and reality in Japan has affected me in a detrimental manner. People, both foreign and Japanese, expect me to be a certain way - in other words, an assertive, expressive, powerful Western woman.

I experienced much the same as you. I was often told that I seemed more Japanese than western because of my calmer, softer & more mild-mannered personality. I didn't fit the energetic (genki), super-confident, very outgoing image of a western woman many expected from me. I was often told to be more bubbly. I smiled enough but I didn't talk enough!

I once was told by this Japanese guy I met that I reminded him of:

Quote:

A nineteenth-century Japanese woman

I have to laugh when I think of how my Japanese friend C. told me her impression of an American female teacher:

Me: "So what do you think of B?"
C: "She's very naughty."
Me: "Why do you think she's naughty?"
C: "Because she talks so loud."
Me: "Oh. You mean noisy!"

B did talk more loudly but I found her actually to be an exception to the rule. Most of the American women I met in Japan didn't speak very loudly at all. So much for that image..

Actually the majority of women I met from Canada, the US, Australia, New Zealand and England were very polite, sensitive to others, thoughtful, and assertive in a nice, open and friendly manner.

Quote:

I really respect Japanese women who are good role models. They're tough, sensitive, feminine and assert themselves in a way that is culturally conditioned. The really cool women in my life are willing to learn about `Western` culture and pick up aspects that they find appealing and valuable. I hope I can do the same, learning from Japanese women's culture.

I feel that way too, especially about the older Japanese women who really did show me those traits in abundance. They were very sensitive and feminine, yet tough and assertive in many ways. I hope that I can live up to them. In a way not to different from the Canadian and Mexican women who I know also possess those characteristics and are good role models as well. That last sentence about mutual knowledge about each other's culture rings true to me too. I hope I was able to do that with my friends in Japan and vice versa.

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