Job Discussion Forums

[Ace]

Have you noticed that the only times they really seem to want to chatter away in English, or have 'discussion' where they're not shy about giving their opinions, is when the topic's something they know nothing about? Like 'the West'...for example... oh, how well they think they know our culture...actually, I come from a pretty cosmopolitan place (Sydney) and I would say the Chinese, especially students of course, are the most uncultured people I've ever come across...(but they love bouncing those basketballs...)

A Muslim friend pays me compliments that bring tears to my eyes sometimes...he's a bit of a 'practising muslim' and he was stunned by my 'erudition' when he checked in a dictionary and found I was guessing the words he wanted correctly...like mosque, Imam ...actually I know little about Islam (I guess I'm just older...no, I come from a country with great public broadcasting (well, it used to be...) and great libraries and I have an enquiring mind...)

[sallyann]

"Have you noticed that the only times they really seem to want to chatter away in English, or have 'discussion' where they're not shy about giving their opinions, is when the topic's something they know nothing about?"


Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Thanks Ace. You really summed it up. That's why it's so painful to listen to, and that's why I'd rather them do role plays, or analyse the lyrics of a song, or basically anything that doesn't involve me listening to their frighteningly ignorant, ill-informed "opinions".

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

Sallyann wrote:

[sallyann]

I don't have any adult students.

I work at a college. My students are 19 to 22 years old. None of them have any income of their own, so the fees are paid by their parents. Not all my students even want to be at college. Some of them are in the classroom against their will. They don't fit the usual definition of "customers".

I don't "want everything to go my way". If that was the case, I would just get on with doing it my way, and I wouldn't bother to come to this forum for advice.

"It's not easy to anger me. "

So what?

[Spiderman Too]

Back in October 2003, Sallyann started the thread 'Students Never Satisfied'
and she wrote;

[sallyann]

Spiderman, thank you for going to the time and trouble of copying all my old posts! I was actually thinking about trying to find that old post but you've saved me the effort. It shows that the difficulties of teaching English in China are confronted again each year.

The quotes you have chosen illustrate my point perfectly. It's now made the point of my original post in this thread much more clear.

Not sure about why you've added the quote about GWOW contradicting himself, though. Whatever.

Thanks again!

[Spiderman Too]

There are none so blind as those who will not see.
There are none so deaf as those who will not listen.
There are none so ignorant as those who will not learn.

[sallyann]

How is that relevant? Could you explain in your own words instead of just quoting all the time?

[Roger]

IT's true that students keep contradicting themselves - it's thei8r Chinese "culture".
We are the exotics here, and they can't relate to us and how we are used to work/study/teach. They think, a teacher's job is to rehearse with them the questions AND the answers; they don't prepare the latter on their own.

Also, there are many built-in contradictions in this soc-called "education" system:

A native English teacher is supposed to know no Chinese;
Ha!
THat's convenient - so the students DON'T UNDERSTAND YOU, and thus are free to do what they like - which has little or nothing to do with practising English!

If you do know Chinese, you must provide translation for them - so the question arises: Why the hell do they "practise" oral English if they can't understand any English?

If you speak colloquial English, you will be told to return to "standard" English; if you speak standard English only they will complain it's too boring!

If you speak, they will complain you are speaking "too fast". If they speak you cannot complain that they speak too slowly, or a gibberish that you can't understand.

As for "adults" paying for their lessons: that's nonsense. Most adults go to English classes only if their employer foots the bill.
This is a regular phuck-up. The students don't care about English but they perceive a potential salary increase as a consequence of spending their time "studying" English.
But they are extremely fickle, often terribly opinionated, and lazy to boot. They don't want to write down any new vocabulary, they will constantly forget their materials, come late and their cellphones will interrupt your lesson.
Adult?

[struelle]

The way I see it is that the students have loads of potential and can certainly learn to speak English. Most are motivated and can certainly be encouraged to speak, but a big part of the problem is knowing and clarifying that their learning goals are. If the students don't know, the management doesn't know, and the teacher has a vague idea, then there's a lot of running around in circles.

One way to make progress, and it is only a step in the right direction, is to elicit specific goals from the students and do a formal or informal needs analysis. A problem with this is contradictions, as Roger points out. Ironically enough, students may learn in a communitarian way, but when asked to brainstorm ideas, most can't agree. Still, some consensus is better than none, and this paves the way for teaching outcomes.

So if a student says, "I want more chances to speak" how can this be more specific? What questions can we ask them to get details?

Steve

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

sallyann wrote:

[sallyann]

GWOW,

Get over it.

[AsiaTraveller]

[laodeng]

GWOW, I love you madly, and in no way do I want to challenge you or start a dispute. But I really must object to your statement that 19- to 22-year-old Chinese univesity students are adults.

I have observed repeatedly that most--not all, but most--Chinese university students have an emotional age of U.S. students about 4 to 5 years younger. They whine, pout, sulk, space out, and cling to their classmates much like Harry Harlow's maternally deprived rhesus monkeys. (Note: I am not calling them monkeys.)

Something happens upon graduation--perhaps it's the realities of the workplace--but a kind of maturity is suddenly thrust upon them. I wish I understood the process better; all I know is what I have repeatedly observed over the course of five years in China, which followed careers both as a teacher and as a psychotherapist.

[The Great Wall of Whiner]