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Lee_Odden
Joined: 22 Apr 2004
Posts: 172
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 Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| ymmv wrote: |
| Also, it takes time for them to get the invitation letter (I believe it involves the local city FAO and the local Education Bureau) and get it in your hands overseas. So if time is short, especially summertime when school is out and most school administrators, who have to chop the required application documents, are not at school, the school may ask you to get an L or F-visa on your own and they'll convert it when you get here. |
This is a very reasonable explanation as to why a legitimate school might ask a prospective teacher to come over on a tourist Visa. However, I wrote the initial post for the newcomer and I decided to "err on the side of the angels," so to speak. These are the finer points of the bureaucratic red tape in China that someone comtemplating teaching here, for the first time, is not going to be able to discern.
| ymmv wrote: |
| P.S. One of them also confided to me, that another reason they might go the L to Z route is to see what the "teacher" is "like" once (s)he arrives. |
That's my concern; precisely. They want the teacher to assume all the risk. But many schools achieve this "let's wait and see" effect by implementing a one to two month probationary period.
I do appreciate that some schools invest money and time in acquiring the documents only to get burned by a "no show." But, as I see it, that's part of the price of doing business and the schools should be willing to absorb it. Asking a foreigner to travel up to half-way around the world without, at least, making the commitment to him/her by investing in the Z-Visa, transmits early warning signs to me, notwithstanding your noted exception.
| ymmv wrote: |
| Moral of the story: It isn't ALWAYS true that a school that asks you to come on an L-visa isn't legit. However, it is true that EVERY place that isn't legit will ask you to come on an L or F-visa. So caveat lector. |
Agreed. |
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Lee_Odden
Joined: 22 Apr 2004
Posts: 172
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Sechelt wrote: |
I would add a word on banking (at the risk of repeating what has been written on Kevin's post). If possible, avoid the Bank of China (or, Bank not of China, as I tend to call it). In addition to an amazing array of bureaucratic silliness, TBC can be quite restrictive in its practises: an ATM card I received while in Changsha, couldn't be used outside of Hunan Province (despite their claims to the contrary- even after I returned and explained my difficulties. Ironically, a TBC teller in Shanghai knew of the restriction- simply by looking at the card!  ). |
Sechelt - I had the same problem with the Bank of China. Apparently, the accounts can only be directly accessed from branches within the same province the account was opened in. Amazing. The reason I decided to open an account with TBC was because when I tried to open an account with the same bank my school uses (from a different province, before moving), I was told that because I am a foreigner and don't have a Chinese ID card, I could not receive an ATM card! (I tried explaining, through an interpreter, that the bank is used by a university which hires foreigners and I was certain that I would be receiving an ATM card from the school so that I could access my account - but to no avail!) Welcome to China! |
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Ludwig
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 1096
Location: 22� 20' N, 114� 11' E
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Do not worry about the likes of 'Tragicman'. It is simply (yet) another instance of what I have elsewhere referred to as the Chinese Panglossian Paradigm. |
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millie
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 413
Location: HK
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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I have BoC card that works everywhere I have been in China.
M. |
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A Token of My Extreme
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 76
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: Useful Advice for the Newcomers |
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| Lee_Odden wrote: |
Tips for the Newcomer and Those Considering Teaching in China
Reputable schools are authorized by the government to hire foreign experts and will send you the proper paperwork for you to obtain your Z-Visa (work Visa) before coming to China. If a school urges you to come to China to work on a L- or F-Visa (promising conversion to a Z-Visa after arrival), that most likely is a warning sign that the school is not authorized to hire foreign experts. You should not come to work in China with anything but a Z-Visa.
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This is completely wrong, there are cities that do not issue letters of invitation and instead request that you come on an 'L' visa. It isn't a policy of the school, but how foreign experts are handled by the foreign expert department in that particular city. The best thing to do if your are concerned about this is look into how the city you are going to handles foreign experts.
Reputable schools can be noticed by their careful hiring practices because they don't want to employ a teacher like My Extreme.
Last edited by A Token of My Extreme on Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Lee_Odden
Joined: 22 Apr 2004
Posts: 172
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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| millie wrote: |
I have BoC card that works everywhere I have been in China.
M. |
Yes, my ATM card works everywhere but if I go into the lobby, they will not accept the card because it is not local. |
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ymmv
Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 387
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Lee_Odden wrote: |
| millie wrote: |
I have BoC card that works everywhere I have been in China.
M. |
Yes, my ATM card works everywhere but if I go into the lobby, they will not accept the card because it is not local. |
My experience matches Millie's and Lee's...but only in the last couple of years. Before that, BOCs were somewhat localised as others have pointed out.
I switched to ICBC two years ago and have had zero problems with them. As Lee mentioned, there still is a problem going to a teller outside your locale (but no problem at a non-local ATM), but ICBC told me how to circumvent it. When you open a savings account at ICBC, they give you a passbook and an ATM card. The ATM card works, locally, at either the ATM machines or, if I don't have the passbook with me, when I walk inside and use the teller.
But when travelling, I was told, the ATM card will work in any machine, but if you want to access the tellers inside the bank, they will require BOTH the ATM card and the passbook. Simply presenting the ATM card, as happened to Lee, is not good enough.
It's an anti-fraud measure, I guess. It's probably a "responsibility" issue, too. The rural bank doesn't care if you use a fake ATM card to screw their machine because it's the ATM system's responsibility. But if you bilk a teller there, it comes out of their pocket. So they want the additional "piece of identification" of the passbook. (Imagine Lao Bai Xin walking into the bank and handing over a passbook in the name of John Smith....).
Bottom Line: If you travel and think you will need teller access, bring along your passbook, at least if you bank with ICBC. If ATM access is sufficient, the card is enough. But as always, Your Mileage May Vary. Better to ask your local bank about it.
P.S. One of the really neat services that Asian banks have now, that I never saw at home, are those printing machines they have in the bank lobbies. Without having to go to the teller, you find the machine and you slip your passbook in it. It reads the magnetic strip on the back of your passbook, and updates your passbook with every transaction since you last used your passbook. No need to wait in line at the windows (ha! an oxymoron on the mainland!) . Great for double-checking against all the ATM and POS receipts you stuffed in your wallet.
And I did find a mistake once where my account had been double-debited for a a 1000 RMB withdrawal. (I suspected it had happened because the machine had not produced any money on my first try, but spit out a receipt. I needed the cash at that monet, so I re-inserted the card and got 1000 RMB - and receipt- on the second try. A week later, I used the Update Machine at my nearby bank and saw the double debit. I gave the manager the ATM reciepts She sent them to the main office and they checked the cash dispersal records from the suspect ATM machine. Within 7 days, they had re-credited my account for the 1000 RMB. Someone from the main ICBC branch even called me (in English) to advise me of this and apologize. |
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Freedom
Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 11:06 pm Post subject: WOW! Thanks! |
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As someone who is contemplating China - thanks! I now know of more questions I need to ask.
Freedom |
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