Job Discussion Forums

[Argo]

I know that similar posts regarding student complaints are added from time to time, but I feel compelled to add my own lamentation via a fresh post. Even though I realize students' suggestions are helpful for future lesson planning, I can't help but feel a bit hurt/ self-critical when students make blunt suggestions on how to make the class better. I teach sophomore and junior English majors (oral and listening classes) and feel that I usually do a decent job keeping them interested and on task in class by coming up with what I hope are creative, helpful lessons. But I still seem to get more complaints than praise if I ask a student for his/her feedback. Listening classes are especially difficult for me. The text book and tapes given to me by the English department contain recordings of 20-year-old BBC news broadcasts. The first day of class my students looked like they abhorred the tapes so much, I decided not to use them. I've been reading articles about Kobe Bryant, the US presidential election, fashion in America, TV shows and movie stars--all major interests that they listed on the first day of class. I do pronunciation exercises; I bought tapes that contain dialogue from popular American movies. I read brief passages from English literature and ask them comprehension questions that lead into discussions on the deeper meaning of the passage. They listen closely and most of them participate--really participate, not just repeating text-book responses to my questions. They laugh at my jokes. They ask me to join them for meals. They email me questions about my life. They look excited when they run into my on campus. But they still complain. Last week I thought one listening lesson went quite well�the best of all my classes thus far� and I asked one of my favorite students for her feedback. She said, with sort of a sheepish, apologetic look on her face, �the first half was ok but the second half was not very good--students lost interest.� Maybe I am being too thin-skinned over this, but its really beginning to drag me down. I would feel so much better if just one student told me that my whole lesson was interesting and helpful. Any words of wisdom from those of you have taught for awhile? Other lamentations?
Thanks!

[Brian Caulfield]

One solution I have is to try and make the class student centered . Every class try to plan a moment where they must get out of their seats . What I did in South Korea was to have them sit in groups of seven eight it doesn't matter . You give them a hand out from the news . The hand out has every six words blocked out . Now in the group is one without the blocked words . In ESL terms a close drill . Now one person reads and the others fill in the words . While this is going on you circulate and correct pronnunciation . I suggest in this group work activity you arrange the groups according to ability . Then give each group questions they can handle .
Try getting them to do close evercises with music . The trick is to get them focusing on something besides you .
I don't know about you but I am at a loss to find here and now materials in English . Taiwan had a dirth of materials . I especially like the cartoons I could get. They are great to for group activities . Cut them up and have the students sequence them . You have many and when a group finishes one you exchange it with another group .
don't take it serious these kids like South Koreans are spoiled. They only know complaining . It is common with people who have no power. Like children . All you can do is your best .
Good Luck

[struelle]

This is no doubt an issue that'll come up with teachers when I take an upcoming teacher training job, so I'll try and take a stab at it now.

It helps to get feedback from differerent students in the class, and target it as specific as you can. It's a little vague from this post as to who's saying and doing what. Try to ask students you get along with for more comments about the lessons. Some ask you for meals and write emails, that's good, try approaching them.

In general, though, I'd suspect sophomore and junior English majors to be critical, but they can offer excellent insights. Some may plan to teach English in future and many have analyzed the language in depth.

The comment about classes dragging in the second half is interesting. This happens a lot at our school too, but I think the main problem is that lessons are 3 hours long, often 6 hours on the weekends. Still, how I tackle the problem is to break the lesson down into intensive and extensive components. I usually teach 80% of the new language in the 1st half and then recycle most of it in the 2nd half with production activities.

Intensive learning is feeding new language input, i.e. readings, listenings, new vocab, language points, error corrections, etc. Extensive learning is more output, in things like role plays, simulations, tasks, group poster drawings, games, and the like.

So, intensive is what you learn, extensive is what you do with it.

A good lesson plan mixes the two up continuously. For example, students can do a listening, then a role-play, which leads into some feedback activity. But generally, the ratio of intensive to extensive learning should be very low in the 2nd half, otherwise students' brains fry out.

It's not rocket science if you think about it. If you're sitting in a desk for 3 hours absorbing new stuff, you will get bored and tune it out. It's tiring to continually learn, so moving around and interacting helps consolodate what's been learned.

With student feedback in general, it also helps to take it with a grain of salt. Don't take that stuff personally, as I've seen other teachers do.

Steve

[burnsie]

Agro,

I have just completed my first two weeks teaching and it's not easy.

I totally understand here too. Though my students haven't really complained to me I know that their attention is not totally there at many times during the class.

And thanks for the comments so far. I will try and incorporate and plan more now. I'm trying to put in games and things to get the kids moving on a regular basis. It's good fun and keeps them open and motivated.

I find that one of the bigger problems is trying to accommodate the wide varied level of skills in the class. The top students get bored and the less skilled students get frustrated and turn off.

Interested in other comments.

[ouyang]

I was given the same 20 year old tapes to use in sophmore listening classes. I had the language lab technician connect the class computer to the internet (it just needed a cable) and install a realaudio player. We listen to current BBC broadcasts now, but the students say they can't understand them because there's no text to follow along with.

Those BBC announcers can use a lot of fancy words, but I'm often re-playing 10 to 15 second segments of simple statements. I'm also able to play movie trailers for them with the realmedia player and they seem to go over well.

I take notes and use sketches and an online dictionary to explain new vocabulary. When you give up the assigned texts, coming up with meaningful interaction is the hard part. I've got an electronic multiple choice testing system in my language lab, and you may not.

It sounds like to me you are doing at least an equally good and probably better job than me. But my opinion is that LISTENING should be the focus of a listening class. Attempting too much can be a problem.

If a chinese english teacher were teaching your class, they'd be able to explain everything that wasn't understood and help the students answer more of the textbook questions correctly. I think you should focus more on your comprehension questions. Divide your students into teams and make your previously brief quizzes into games that take up more of the classtime.

[Kurochan]

Especially if you've got a long class, remember this rule of thumb I was taught in a teacher training course. Some experts recommend you have a "change-up," some sort of change of activity every twenty minutes. Like go from reading to discussion, or from discussion to dictation, or something like that.

Also, I think the students have much higher expectations of foreign teachers than they do of Chinese ones. I've had my students complain that my classes weren't "fun" enough, but I know very well when they have a Chinese teacher, he/she just sits at the podium, reads from a book, and doesn't even look at the class. When people see a foreign teacher they expect some sort of excitement, and sometimes those expectations are unrealistic. That's especially true in a class like writing -- when you've got to work on proper use of articles, or something like that, it's hard to make the class scintillating 100% of the time!

[ymmv]

This is just a small piece of advice to those having difficulties connecting with their Chinese students. It's nothing that you don't know already. But it took me a couple of semesters here to realize how important it is.

Chinese (and Chinese students) tend to measure every transaction (yes, 1 class = 1 transaction) in terms of value for cost. So they tend to evaluate every lesson on a "How many new things did I learn today" basis. If you ask them after each class whether they liked the class, the answer you get will be based on that criteria.

If you just go in and make things interesting and fun, albeit with the intentions of having them produce English, the Chinese students may complain if you ask them "What do you think?"

Chinese students are not accustomed to "our" methods. But they can become so very easily.

If you adopt a Chinese mode and tell them, at the beginning of the class, that:

1. They will learn X number of new vocabulary or idioms today, and

2. They will learn some new sentence structures, and

3. They will have opportunities to use this new knowledge, and

4. We will do it in English, and

5. It will be fun, and

6. In the second part of class, we will review and extend it.

Then, as good pedagogy and Steve suggest, you can spend the second half of the class reinforcing language points you worked hard introducing in the first part of the class. BECAUSE you have told them WHY you are doing this, you will not get responses such as, "Well, the second part of class was boring."

Then......You have laid out a Chinese - style lesson plan (complete with 6 parts) that fits into their method of learning. Then you do your thing. In the last 5 minutes of your 1.5 to 2 hour lesson, you review with them:

"Did you learn all these things- new vocabulary, idioms, sentence patterns, etc.?

"Did you have some chances to use them?"

"Did you 'try your best' to incorporate your new knowledge into your English studies?"

"Did you focus on using English in doing the tasks?"

"Was it fun?"

You gave them a 6 point checkoff list when you started class as a baseline. If you meet that baseline, they can't (and won't) complain.

It's the Chinese way.... reduce everything to numbered lists. And then have them go through their "list" at the end of class so they can feel they got value.

Incorporate Chinese characteristics into your teaching, but only as an intro and finale. The middle part is all you.

But DO let them know what to expect. You are the foreign teacher, so they expect you to be different. You just have to TELL them how you will be different before you try to SHOW them. Tell them CLEARLY what you are going to do that class and then do it. Show them. Your student comments will be favorable thereafter.

Chinese educators like to TELL.

Foreign Teachers like to SHOW.

But a truly effective educator of Chinese students (Chinese or "Foreigner") SHOWS and TELLS (or vice versa).

[Ace]

'incorporate'?

I've been trying to get the 'focus' concept across for ages now...

jeez! Your students are good!

[ymmv]

[amberrollins]

I gotta agree with ymmv on this. I used to think "well, of course they know we're doing this for a reason", but I've noticed that when I explain what we are going to do and why we are going to do it, the students seem to feel like they are getting a better lesson than when I don't.

[tigerlily20202]

Well, I'm new to the whole ESL field myself, so I'm still figuring things out, but just from reading your post and my own recent experiences, I don't think you should take what your students say so deeply to heart. Or so seriously. You're an ESL teacher, not an entertainer.
And after all, you're already doing the two most important things: trying to teach them listening comprehension/oral English, and thinking of their interests by finding alternatives to the tapes. There are so many teachers here that don't seem to care about their students at all. I feel my classes are generally going the same way as yours (some laughter, try to make it fun, good attention spans, etc.) but honestly, the feedback she gave you isn't really that helpful or specific. What else do your students want? My students like their foreign teacher classes because it's less strict or formal, but you aren't a pop star there to entertain them. You're a teacher. And all language comprehension/oral classes are hard. Combine that with the fact that Chinese students seem to have some pretty ridiculous expectations or assumptions about foreigners in general, maybe their expectations aren't completely realistic.
I just graduated college and I was always very critical of my professors, just because college is so expensive. The Chinese system of compliments/criticisms/feedbacks is pretty different from ours: in the West it's ok if you've tried your best, but in China, you can ALWAYS do better, you can ALWAYS improve. Chinese seem good at flattery but when it comes to their constructive criticism, no one can be a 10. It seems like you're already trying your best; consider the criticisms, but also consider the context of the culture you're in. And be realistic for yourself. You can't please everyone but if you think in your gut you're doing a good job, maybe it's the subject itself more then it's your inability to make class fun.

[kev7161]

I had a Senior one student come to me today after class. His English and comprehension is quite good, by the way. He (politely) complained that the class was too easy and he wants more challenging English. I sympathize with him 100% but, sadly, 3/4 of the class is at a very low-level English. And that's what I struggle with:

On the one hand, most of these low-level English students just don't want to learn English. Quite frankly, I'd rather not have them in class at all. Why don't they stay in their own classroom and sleep or work on math homework or listen to their MP3s? Then I could construct lessons that are (probably) more interesting and certainly more challenging for the go-getters.

On the other hand, I could go ahead and present those more challenging classes and not worry about the lunkheads in the back of my class. If I do that, however, then they (the lunkheads) tend to start chattering to each other in Chinese and disrupt the class.

I have asked about this situation time and again and simply get no good feedback (from the adults). It is so obvious that a foreign language class must be broken up into levels and not cram all the students from one class into the same level. The same goes for mathematics and other subjects. ESPECIALLY at a high school level! So, I have never gotten feedback from students in the manner of the OP, but I know how some of them are feeling. (Also, this first unit of the textbook is more of an "introduction" unit . . . the units and the new vocabulary get progressively more difficult as we go on.)

[carken]

[Roger]

I have had quite a few such barbs coming my way, not necessarily from the most dedicated or most gifted students. No, most of the time it was from students who had problems adjusting to new classroom management methods or using English in a real-life situation.
For example, ADULTS can be quite unnerving by asking you "...but what are you teaching us? You haven't taught us anything new today!"
Then again, there are so many laggards in these classes, students that don't belong there in the first place; among adults there are many that simply come out of boredom. They have still too much time on their hands (surprising when one considers how many office hours they waste, and how muc time they spend travelling home).

Young learners too can be pretty challenging; they compare us to their Chinese teachers. And, they don't waste any time thinking how challenging it is to us to teach such large classes with so many differing talents! The laggards complain we are going too fast, and they want things translated, so we fall off in their comparisons to our Chinese colleagues.

I think we are kind of softballs to them. Notice how many of them never do any homework? Yes, you told them to read up in preparation for next Wednesday; on Wednesday you ask them "who has read up?" Their answer in chorus? "We have been too busy!" Yes, too busy - every evening they must spend time doing their assignements; but what a waste this is! How many merely copy from one another? How many actually read what they are supposed to internalise? They don't have this culture that requires a learner to take some responsability for their own advancement. So, the whole class will have strictly nothing.

It's a clash of cultures! Communitarianism versus individu responsability!

I gradually learnt that the first impression they have of you must be straitforward: insist on discipline! Teach them to OBEY. For that is the essence of Chinese "education". Knowledge is zero without being coupled to obedience. Practical skills are less important than the right attitude! Whatever that is...
So, I hold roll-calls - it takes several minutes before I am trhough those 90 names I have on one of my lists!
And, I also make it plain that not cooperating with me results in punishment; punishment is when you down-grade their performances! Flatteries are wasteful and misleading! They can rely on their Chinese teachers to get a better-than-deserved grade - not on me!

[burnsie]