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Ben Round de Bloc
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1946
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 Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 1:30 pm Post subject: Things NOT to say when looking for a job in Mexico |
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[Take-off on another thread]
To those of you who are involved with hiring:
I think it would be interesting to hear some specific thoughts and opinions that job seekers should avoid sharing with potential employers. As I've mentioned before, I'm in no way involved with the hiring process where I teach. However, I do get e-mails from job seekers asking for contact information for local language schools. Some of these job seekers share too much information.
What are some things that you, as someone involved in the hiring process, do not want to hear from job seekers? |
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moonraven
Joined: 24 Mar 2004
Posts: 3094
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| Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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The biggest mistake job-seekers make--in all fields, not just teaching--is to natter on about themselves and their needs in an interview. The employer wants to see that you are interested in meeting his/her needs, not yours.
Rule of them: it's more important to ask good questions than to give good answers.
Interviewing is something that can be practiced in class. About 8 summers ago I had a group of upper intermediate students in Harmon Hall--the majority of whom had just graduated from university. We formed a Conversation Club for them and worked on writing resumes (in English, but those were easily translated)and interviewing--but it was the interviewing practice that allowed several of those folks to get hired almost immediately. |
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Ben Round de Bloc
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1946
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:17 am Post subject: |
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| moonraven wrote: |
| --but it was the interviewing practice that allowed several of those folks to get hired almost immediately. |
Have you found anything generally unique regarding interviews in Mexico either in style or content? Is it common for an interviewer to ask personal questions?
I'm curious, because my interviewing experience is so limited in this country. For my first job I was just chatting with one of the directors of a language school, and she asked me if I would consider teaching for them. For my second/present job I had interviews with three different people. I suspect the first interviewer of the three had contacted my then current boss before the interview, because she made some references to things I hadn't mentioned to her or included on my CV. I felt the following two interviews were more of a formality than anything else.
I can recall one other job I applied for, but I never got to the interview stage on that one. I delivered my CV and was asked to fill in a personal information form and arrange an appointment for an interview, which I did via the school secretary. It was a private secundaria/prepa. When I arrived for the scheduled interview, I was told there was no need to have an interview, because according to the information on my form, I was single and not Catholic, which meant they wouldn't consider hiring me. |
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richtx1
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 115
Location: Ciudad de M�xico
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:33 am Post subject: Personal questions... |
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Have you found anything generally unique regarding interviews in Mexico either in style or content? Is it common for an interviewer to ask personal questions?
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Every guide to doing business in Latin Ameria (one I recommend is Mark Cramer's Culture Shock: Mexico -- Portland, Graphics Arts Books, 1999) tells you that Latino business people like to get a feel for the person they are doing business with. Questions that a job interviewer in the U.S. (and I'm guessing Canada and GB, but I've never done hiring in either of those countries) CANNOT ASK -- like "will your wife have a problem with you working at night?" or even "do you have a wife?" are standard.
Since most foreign teachers are single, and are disproporiately gays, the questions can sometimes throw you. They can be answered without lying and without being defensive (another no-no in an interview) by saying your family supports your move (if true) or that you are single and have no children to support (if true) or something similar.
The Mexican interviewers are not trying to weed out gays (the country is much less homophobic on a real level than the U.S., in my opinion), but are just getting a feel for who they are dealing with... are you someone likely to stick around, or are you going to run off to Acapulco with a rich widow... or are you running from that little coke deal gone sour. And -- most importantly -- are you a likeable person that they want to do business with. |
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Ben Round de Bloc
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1946
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:57 am Post subject: Re: Personal questions... |
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| richtx1 wrote: |
| Since most foreign teachers are single, and are disproporiately gays, the questions can sometimes throw you. |
Huh? Most foreign teachers are disproporiately gays? WTF is a disproporiately gay? 
| ricktx1 wrote: |
| . . . are you someone likely to stick around, or are you going to run off . . . |
I've noticed that this does seem to be a big concern among people I know who hire foreign teachers. I'm not sure if it's based on previous experience or not, but many local employers seem to feel that foreign teachers in general lack staying power. Employers seem concerned that foreigners either won't show up after accepting a job offer or that they'll bail out soon after starting. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 339
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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That's because it's a two-way-street when it comes to interviews. Potential teachers are trying to case out the school as much as the school is trying to do the same on them.
From the teacher's perspective, they are wondering the same things as the employer:
Can I trust these guys? Will they pay me? Will I get a bunch of needless hassles about frivolous things? Will they help me with housing etc?
It's a scary thing coming to a foreign country to work, especially if it's the first time. A lot of the schools in Mexico seem to be less than honest when they promote their schools so in turn, a lot of potential teachers seem "flighty".
At least, that's been my experience. |
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moonraven
Joined: 24 Mar 2004
Posts: 3094
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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Ben Round,
Foreign teachers, in general, DO lack staying power. Occasionally one gets the feeling that they might hang around for awhile--but that is limited to teachers married to Mexicans. Most foreign teachers are just here to have a good time, check out the country, see what it has to offer for THEM. I have met only a couple of teachers who were interested in doing something for the community where they were (temporarily) living.
Employers have every right to believe that foreign teachers won't be staying very long. They feel that foreign teachers are a necessary evil, and would prefer to hire Mexican teachers. I believe I gave a pretty extensive run-down on this topic a few months back, so won't bore folks with it again.
As for asking personal questions--I have had very few formal interviews here (3 or 4), and I don't remember being asked personal questions. When I am interviewing to hire someone, I don't ask about age and marital status, but I do ask the kind of personal questions that I hope when answered will let me know what type of person I am really dealing with. |
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richtx1
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 115
Location: Ciudad de M�xico
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:50 pm Post subject: Ya got me!!! |
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Huh? Most foreign teachers are disproporiately gays? WTF is a disproporiately gay?
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OUCH!!!! 
"in numbers disproportate to U.S. Census estimates of the gay population of the United States, U.S. teachers working in Mexico are more likely to be gay men..." or something like that.
Sheet-yit! (as they say in Texas), I knew what I meant...
You know the saying: Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. And those who can't teach are administrators." |
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moonraven
Joined: 24 Mar 2004
Posts: 3094
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Disproportionate (ly). |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 339
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 12:16 am Post subject: |
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You know the saying: Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. And those who can't teach are administrators."
Foreign teachers, in general, DO lack staying power. Occasionally one gets the feeling that they might hang around for awhile--but that is limited to teachers married to Mexicans. Most foreign teachers are just here to have a good time, check out the country, see what it has to offer for THEM. I have met only a couple of teachers who were interested in doing something for the community where they were (temporarily) living.
[Quote: Moonraven]
I think this has a lot to do with wages. Who in their right mind is going to try and stick it out when they are barely scraping by or worse? If the schools would pay better, teachers would tend to stick around longer.
In reality, I know that's not going to happen. But I know several teachers who are in Mexico long term who aren't married to Mexicans. The reason they stayed is that they were able to find a job that payed a livable wage (ITESM)
I don't disagree that there are a lot of "flakes" posing as teachers, but I've also seen a lot of good teachers become runners because the school was doing some creative accounting or just that they weren't making enough to live on.
If you pay peanuts, you can't expect people to want to stay long term. |
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moonraven
Joined: 24 Mar 2004
Posts: 3094
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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I have managed to avoid the neo-liberal slave trip of the Tec de Monterrey, have been working here for over 10 years, and usually manage to save around half of my salary so that I don't have to be working all the time. If I were interested in making bigger bucks I would be back in the US, where my business consulting clients were paying me 75 bucks an hour more than 10 years ago.
The term you mentioned--peanuts--is a very relative one. The folks who just barely scrape by here are doing so because their skills and experience don't warrant a higher salary in this particular marketplace. I trained a fair number of Mexican teachers who are making a decent wage teaching English--more than they would make if they had jobs in their specialties (primarily engineering.) |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 339
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| Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 12:17 am Post subject: |
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Sorry, I did not mean to imply that all positions in Mexico were for peanuts. I just wanted to show a side of things from the newbie teacher's point of view.
Cheers |
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richtx1
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 115
Location: Ciudad de M�xico
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| Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 9:46 pm Post subject: Peanuts... |
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| Quote: |
| If you pay peanuts, you can't expect people to want to stay long term. |
I discourage people from working in Mexico who expect to make money. And, when were teachers, anywhere, at any time in history, ever paid a fraction of their worth?
I know moonraven's blood-pressure will go up a point or two but I usually hire out-of-country teachers thru that unnamed teacher placement service in Palm Springs, CA that charges about 1000 USD per placement -- and for which I do the Mexico City placements. Those teachers are able to command a slightly (or even substantially) higher rate than those who just send in a resume. They've been "vetted" for the types of problems I brought up in another post (my fault -- I meant it to be a reply in here -- some days I'm more of a klutz than others).
I don't expect them to stay more than a year anyway. The best of the lot are looking for a "real-life graduate school" and have an interest in Mexico and Mexican culture(s) beyond the classroom. When I do hire directly, people with ties to the country (family or a significant other) or a serious, demonstrable interest in the Mexican peoples are going to be the ones I expect to stick around ... and are the people I will hire. |
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moonraven
Joined: 24 Mar 2004
Posts: 3094
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| Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Not to worry. Moonraven takes lopresor 100 twice a day. BP under control. |
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