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Teacher in Rome · Joined: 09 Jul 2003 Posts: 1286

And what about the fighting that is happening now, between Iraqi Sunni and Iraqi Shia? Between Iraqis and Kurds? Between Iraqi wannabe policemen and Iraqis opposed to other Iraqis who want to sign up as policemen?

I'm no fan of continued US / UK / Italian etc involvement in Iraq and I believe that the only outside organisation with any chance - however slight - of intervention is the UN. But Iraq seems to be descending into civil war - with Iraqis doing a lot of the killing. Is there any way to stop this from becoming worse - and who or which organisation has the "authority" to stop it? A weak Iraqi government? Unlikely, in my opinion.

Teacher in Rome · Joined: 09 Jul 2003 Posts: 1286

Actually - a quick edit...

As far as I know, Kurds aren't yet fighting. But they have weapons, and certain elements in Iraqi politics have an interest in keeping them out of any shared power. It could also turn nasty in Kurdish areas...

moonraven · Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 3094

It has become a free-for-all: Iraqis against the US troops, and the 3 ethnic/religious groups against each other. The US deliberately placed a stooge government in place that was, and continues to be, incapable of keeping order--as the premise was that a government capable of functioning would boot the US troops out on their haunches as its first move, and therefore: bye-bye cheap petroleum.

It is clear that the US created the conditions for civil war. They didn't do so deliberately, as civil war conditions are definitionally unstable and therefore keeping control of pretroleum production and increasing it to their stated goal of 5 million barrels a day is not likely to occur under those conditions. They did so out of stupidity--with their eyes so blinded by the "black gold" that they could not see the obvious results of an invasion.

I suppose Bush rubbed his two digits of IQ together and the fire of God told him that everything in Iraq would be just fine. Or maybe it was that Old Devil Cocaine that led him to think he was invincible...?

Winmar · Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 125 Location: Melbourne

Going into Iraq like they did was an atrocious move, and not having the foresight to see what would happen was even worse. Things really couldn't be much worse there now. The US govt really has no clue, does it?

The G-stringed Avenger · Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 2:17 pm Post subject:

The war WILL be over the minute we fix up what we've done in the middle east - stop interfering in their affairs, occupying their countries, bombing and sanctioning them and supporting the questionable regime in Israel.

These people aren't dedicated to the downfall of western civilisation. That's just their mantra to drum up support, to create a feeling that the powerless can strike back at their enemies. They want western interference and influence OUT - then, and only then will they quit. Why do you think their actions are usually accompanied by political demands?

ls650 · Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 3484 Location: British Columbia

Exactly right. The US (and the world) would have been a lot better off spending 150+ billion dollars eliminating the need for imported oil. Without the demand for that oil there would be no need for the US to have troops in the middle east.

moonraven · Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 3094

Ah, there's the rub. The Bush Gang--especially Dick Cheney--wouldn't be making big bucks in kickbacks for contracts under your scenario--which is why they have no intention of considering it.

Ludwig · Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 2:59 pm Post subject:

leeroy · Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Posts: 777 Location: London UK

Yes. Whatever the reason they drummed up, though, I doubt things would be going very well. You can hardly call Bush's handling of the whole affair very slick can you?

moonraven · Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 3094

Hate puns.