Job Discussion Forums

[dtomchek]

Hello everyone:

I was sitting at a Karaoke place with some friends and we got into a discussion as to whether "Japan is a first world modern country?!" The question itself facinated me and I would like some views from people who live/have lived in Japan!!!

[GambateBingBangBOOM]

You need to define what you mean by "first world country".

It certainly has all the things that are generally thought of as being part of the first world- indoor plumbing (predominantly), high levels of literacy, economy that allows most people a half-decent way of life (compared to developing nations).

It's just that there are aspects of this country that still seem very much pre-Meiji reformation throwbacks, especially in the heirarchy of the culture, and attitudes towards "outsiders".

But guess what! That's what happens when your goal is to immitate without becoming a western country (actually changing people's general opinions is a very slow process, getting people to say that they have changed their opinion when there is a definate benefit for them is much easier, and faster).

So IMHO it's a first world country (non-western toilets aside ) but with attitudes that seem to change very slowly by Western standards.

[Gordon]

I wouldn't say Japan is first world when it comes to housing: no insulation, cheaply made, corrugated iron siding, cracks down the sides of buildings. People live in buildings that in many first-world nations would be condemned.

[Lindsay]

I believe the correct terms are: least developed, developing and developed.
Because Japan is a G8 country, I believe it to be a developed country.

[canuck]

Japan is a developed country. This question is not very deepof philisophical.

A better question might be are people in Canada or the US better off than people in Japan. Many of us that live here have had to adjust to many different things, including many things that are inferior.

I heard an interesting fact, that most people in Canada or the States live paycheque to paycheque and would have a difficult time surviving if they lost their job for more than 2 months. Most people in Japan do not live paycheque to paycheque and are more prepared for the future.

[AgentMulderUK]

A high proportion of Japanese people are loaded with money, IMO.
There is nothing developing about it. It's already happened.

Just look at the rate they spend spend spend.
In Tokyo, can you walk 100m and not bump into a girl with a designer bag, loaded down with carrier bags from expensive shops....

Take a look at the cars. I have yet to see rust on one of them.

One thing I notice here is that people just love to constantly say how poor they are. Particularly over coffee and a cream cake in an expensive coffee shop or during their PRIVATE lesson.
I couldn't afford the cream cake, let alone the private lesson....

[bshabu]

Japan has the most developed train system in the world.

Second largest economy in the world.

To expand on canuck's point of living paycheck to paycheck.
"Disposable income". How many people in America or Canada are walking down the street with $2000 designer bags? Heated toilets that wash you.

Japan has a higher rate of early adopters than any other country that I know. They are eager to take in and buy new tech. most impression I get when going back to the USA, is �It�s too expensive.� Just look at mobiles, Car navigation systems in Japan and the USA. All were introduced in the USA at the same time or before Japan. Yet Japan is far ahead of the USA in all respects to these. Example a car-navi in the USA in boasting that it is the only one with a remote, yet another says it is the only one that is tied into the police broadcast to warn of traffic and accidents. I just laughed at this. Remotes are almost standard and police tuners are almost included all the time.

Lastly, no insulation. Yes ,that is true but that�s the last thing you want in summer. There are a lot of bad apartments in Japan. In the USA as well. The best apartment that I have ever lived in is here in Japan, the one I am at now.

What basis makes one think it anything other than Developed? I would like to know some examples that were discussed or more input from others.


bshabu

[dtomchek]

Konnichiwa:

Well, this was basically the jist of our conversation as well. Based on the available evidence to date, it sort of boils down to this..

By any tangible definition of the term "Developed Country", then Japan would qualify. Good transportation system, good education system resulting in a high literacy rate, Yen is widely accepted round the world for exchange, advanced technology is used, people have a high standard of living, etc. etc.

If we are talking about more intangilbles, then people think Japan still has a LONG way to go. Racism and Xenephobia not only exists but is widely tolerated and even encouraged by the authorities (Mayor of Tokyo is a good example), official gender inequalities exist as a matter of law (such as in case of divorce where the man can remarry that day but a woman has to wait 6 months), rights of the accused are hardly respected (Police can hold you with no evidence for 20 days and you have no rights to anything in that time including so much as a phone call to your family saying you will not be home and anything you say or don't say can/will be used against you) etc. etc.

That all being said, people who have been here a while do say things are improving all the way around...

[canuck]

I think it works many ways. Look in North America for example...would you say there isn't racism? In addition, there are numerous studies showing that women in general still make 67% of what a man makes.

Yes, there are instances where it seems like conditions are harsh, but look what happened with the United States and all the terror suspects...they changed the rules somewhat and called them enemy combatants, held them in Cuba for over 3 years years without charging them of a crime.

You're right, some things that are said and done in Japan just make you shake your head. But it's that way everywhere.

Interesting, healthy discussion.

[dtomchek]

Hello:

Well, I'm not sure we are talking about the same things though. The last study I read was that a college educated woman who remains childless makes 98% of what a man in a similar position makes (plus/minus 3% makes it a statistical dead heat). I think here its motherhood that eventually holds women back rather than anything else. As long as the divorce rate remains as 50% or better and women almost in all cases get physical custody of the kids, then the salary difference will always be there. Face it, when you are a single parent with a career, you are just stretched in too many different directions.

Yes, I do agree that Racism exists in every society but I do not think it is as tolerated or accepted in other socities as in Japan. Face it, I don't hear politicians blaming foreigners for every problem America has and seeing police post signs that say, "Beware of Foreigners" does not exactly inspire.

The problem with Guantanamo is something of an abberition. I personally hate holding them there without charges for some indefinite period of time but to let them go with possible catastrophic consequences also is not exactly appealing either.

You are correct though, a healthy discussion indeed...

[GambateBingBangBOOM]

[Gordon]

I'd also like to add that double pane windows also keep the heat out in the summer. You don't have to put up ugly tatami shutters on the outside of your window to block the sun.

No to flog a dead horse, but is there even a building code or do they intentionally try to make things ugly. Whatever happened to the beautiful architecture Japan was once known for?

[Dr.J]

I guess a lot of it disappeared when it was bombed, and people decided to make lots of houses quickly that wouldn't burn so easily.

All countries go through the "concrete is great!" phase, but I have to admit I've never seen it applied to rivers before. Then again, there is a lot of rain. Then again, concrete doesn't really absorb water like real earth does. Then again, if you channel it right down to the sea, you are OK. But it's still ugly.

Japan is first world, sure, but first world just means top of the heap.

[Sweetsee]

It is and they aren't.

I think MacCarthur said it all.

[canuck]