Job Discussion Forums

[globalcitizen]

Is there anyone who has taught at a uni both in Korea and Japan?
Would like to know about the differences; any insight is appreciated.

[PAULH]

I cant comment on all Korean Universities but here is what was said about Suwon University in Korea. Post or mail me (or Gordon or Taikibansei) if you want info on working at Japanese universities



I'll begin by saying that this is one man's experience. I don't know how typical it is. Maybe others who subscribe to this list can confirm or deny the validity of my opinions. Just what do Korean administrators think makes a qualified EFL teacher? At Suwon University, where I taught, the ESL program opened in 1995. The recruiter was a Korean teaching chemistry at an American university. Five of the eight he recruited left Korea after only a few months there. The second recruiter, who hired me, taught engineering at Suwon University. Of the approximately 19 he hired, two left with no notice. One was fired and ones� contract wasn't renewed. Eight left after completing a year. This recruiting record is due to the fact that Koreans believe any native speaker of English can teach it. Of the 27 hired by both recruiters, only four had degrees in TEFL or Applied Linguistics. The attitude of anyone -will- do is also evident in the general populace. There is genuine surprise when it is discovered that a foreigner had taught English in his native country before going to Korea.

The lack of concern for qualified teachers is clear in the hiring practices in Korea. Although there is an effort to appear professional, it is soon obvious that all you have to be is a native English speaker in order to find work teaching in Korea. Job advertisements state that for universities you need to have an M.A. in TEFL or a related field (anything is related) and a minimum of one year of experience teaching. One of the foreign employees at Suwon University, a South African man in his late forties, placed an ad on the Internet site called Dave's ESL Cafe stating those requirements, but he himself didn't meet them. Not only was he unqualified to teach but he actually had a criminal record in two states for trafficking in cocaine. A 33 year-old man from Nova Scotia who had spent ten years teaching mental patients how to make beds was deemed qualified for Suwon University. Of two others from the same area, one ha d a B.A. and had been a part-time volunteer teacher , while her husband had worked as a part-time library assistant. Imagine the classroom behavior of these people, but outside of that, the former mental hospital worker and by coincidence another Canadian man (from Montreal) both used drugs and had sex with their students.

The salary and benefits given to foreign employees by Korean administrators further reflects their unconcern for qualifications. All foreigners with B.A.'s are paid the same and all with M.A.'s are paid the same regardless of type of degree or work experience. This leads to situations in which, for example, a man with an M.A. in TEFL and ten years teaching experience is paid the same salary as someone with an M.A. in some other field and no teaching experience. At contract renewal time, all teachers are rehired and given an equal pay raise.

We also have a share in the blame for the Koreans' �attitude, by virtue of our lack of professional preparation. In Joan Morley's TESOL Matters interview, she warned about the danger to our field of the many working in it who lack any professional training at all. A one-month long program from which one gets a certificate is not adequate professional training. It is not equivalent to an M.A. program or the RSA certificate. It shows a lack of commitment to the teaching profession. When 90% of those teaching at Suwon University were not trained teachers it confirmed Koreans prejudicial belief that only the losers, who couldn't make it in their native countries, end up teaching overseas.

Koreans contentment to simply get a foreign body in a classroom can make Korea a professionally unrewarding place to teach. Yes, there are a number of qualified teachers. I attended the KOTESOL Conference. Nevertheless, I think I'm on safe ground in stating that the mindset about qualifications permeates Korea. As for Suwon University, if you are a professional teacher, my advice is to stay away. It's strictly for backpackers.

[Gordon]

I am currently teaching at a Japanese university and I worked p/t for a short spell at a Korean university 9 years ago. 9 years ago, I had a BA, no TEFL and 6 months of teaching experience under my belt when I worked in Korea. I can't say how it has changed since then, but probably not by much.
I have to say that the post Paul just pasted is dead on from my experience. Qualifications are not important, just a BA. Take a look at the Korean job board to see for yourself. Another thing I noticed is how the difference in pay between someone with a BA and MA is about $200 in Korea. Wow! That would take about 100 years to make the degree pay for itself.

If someone wanted to work at a Japanese uni with a BA and some experience teaching at a Korean uni, they would be laughed at. In the reverse situation (applying for a job in Korea with the same qualifications), they would hire you on the spot.

What specifically do you want to know about the differences between the different unis?

[hamel]

message deleted

[PAULH]

[globalcitizen]

Thanks for your replies! I've been teaching at a Korean uni for the past 2 years and have had a good experience so far, but for my own personal and professional growth I'm looking for a change and am considering Japan where I lived for a short time.
The Korean experiences posted are pretty extreme, at my uni almost everyone has or is working on their Master's or PhD, things are changing here. (Myself MEd in lish Education)
Anyhow, I would like to know more about Japanese unis. Students' attitude, motivation and discipline, how many teaching hours, what type of classes (conv, writing, TOEIC etc.), administrative work besides teaching, possible problems among faculty and staff.
Thanks.

[Gordon]

I am glad to hear qualifications have changed in Korea for teaching. Why do the job boards not reflect the fact that teachers need masters?

Globalcitizen

I found that generally Koreans are better at English and try harder. Motivation is a problem in the unis here, many don't see why they should learn, even if they want to be English teachers.

My class size ranges from 20 to 70 students, I teach 8- 90 min. classes/week. No office hours and about 4-5 months holidays/year. You get a generous research and travel budget that allows you to attend int'l conferences and buy any book or material you desire (Maybe that is why people want to teach in a Japanese uni, Hamel).

My classes vary: conversation, writing, TOEIC, cross-cultural and I designed my own internet English class.

There is a really us vs. them attitude among your Japanese counterparts, you never will get accepted as an equal on campus or in Japan for that matter.

Japanese unis are great if you have the right qualifications, the biggest drawback is that 99% have a 3 - 5 year maximum posting before you have to change jobs and look elsewhere.

[PAULH]

[hamel]

paul and gordon: i really enjoy your posts. i taught for three years in a foreign lang. college and at a university in korea. i'm sure i couldn't get a job like that in japan and i have kids, so staying in korea for the time being. i learned so much from other teachers with professional backgrounds in esl, but found lawyers and other academics who had some great teaching skills. i have a liberal arts masters with esl experience and lots of experience with foreign students--i miss teaching college students really. large classes are challenging, but some of my classes only had ten to fifteen students.

currently, the better schools (usually private) offer good housing packages and long term possibilities. i have known japanese professors who like teaching here and westerners with japanese spouses who travel to japan during the long vacations.
i apologize for saying you were full of hot air. dumb comment.

[Gordon]

Hamel,
No worries mate. It was a bit of a low blow.

[PAULH]

Hamel

I won't ban you from the board for this one. (not just yet, anyway)

[hamel]

this info is so dated obviously. most of the university teachers in korea have teaching degrees and/or tesol training and a lot of experience. also, the jobs have gotten a lot more competitive as the economy has tightened up lately. unfortunately the pay is pretty low while the demands of university teaching can be challenging. many of the teachers have to rely on privates to survive. i'll admit that it isn't always easy living in korea, but there is some really good teaching here. who would want to teach in a japanese university anyway?sounds like the jobs have really dried up there.[/quote]

[globalcitizen]

Gordon and Paul, thanks for the info. Hamel, you too. Seems teachingwise there is not much difference, moneywise yes, but I'm not here for the money.
I came to Asia because my students back home are mainly from Korea and Japan and teaching them was just soooo different from my previous experiences (I had taught in Europe before) that I became interested in their culture and language.
I actually find teaching at uni less fulfilling and rewarding than teaching at a language institute where at least students want to learn. Yes, hours and holiday are great and I do value my easy life, but I am not satisfied with my job.

Anyhow, I taught 3 months in Tokyo with Westgate and my students were uni students, I can do that again.

I have a question: if I decide to apply just to a language school, do you think it's better not to mention my masters on my resume? Somebody said I may be overqualified.
What company would you recommend that is more about education than moneymaking? (if any exists)

[J.B. Clamence]

[may be going]

i taught in 2 korean unis for 2.5 years and am now teaching at uni in oz. the difference between uni in oz and uni in korea is remarkable.

but i think the problem in korea is that there simply aren't enough people there with masters. so their hiring preference is for someone with a masters but then if they can't find anyone suitable they have to go down to B.A with experience.

you also have to remember that there are literally hundreds and hundreds of unis in korea. nearly all with needs to hire foreigners. so obviously, they won't all get people with masters degrees all the time. and some of the smaller, rural unis aren't worth sneezing at if you're a prof. teacher, but something sought after if you're not. so these things must be remembered.

with japanese unis i feel they go the other way. they require a masters, uni experience in japan, publications, japanese language proficiency usually as a minimum. that's all well and good if what you teach reflects that. but teaching headway and some toeic as compulsory subjects to disinterested students is hardly worthy of such demands.