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[jeddahteacher]

http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2004/09/researchers_fin.php

Segal says that studies show that the all-volunteer military is resolutely middle American, with the top 25 percent—the economic elites—and the lowest 25 percent largely failing to serve...

Gifford found that blacks, who make up about 20 percent of all active-duty personnel, represented 16.7 percent of all casualties during the war phase and 12.2 percent of deaths after the occupation phase began.

[distiller]

With all due respect jeddahteacher, the site you continue to refrence, American Renaissance, is an ultra rightwing group that is often accused of and linked to white supremacy and is nicknamed "Academic Racists" by the media and academia. I hardly think they are the group to get racial stats from.

Here's what blacks have to say: http://www.jbhe.com/features/35_renaissance.html

Here's what academia says: http://www.ferris.edu/isar/archives/genewar/Rena.htm

Whether you want to believe one side or the other is up to you but what I want to know is why you have taken such an interest in trying to disprove that the lower class, a class blacks are disproportionately a part of, does not take the brunt of the negative consequences of war. When you try to illustrate truth by refrencing what is commonly know as a racist source it says little for you or your cause.

[jeddahteacher]

Esteemed Distiller,
The articles to which you point give their opinions of the site from which I found the article, it does not take issue with either the article nor the source from which the article came.
Perhaps you have missed the fact that I have utter contempt for the ignorant, deceitful, multi-culturalist, diversify America to death crowd that infests the politically correct universe of academic discourse and prefers slander, censorship, mob attacks and lies to argument.
The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education does not appear to realize that Blacks are in the process of being replaced as America's largest minority group by people who are less than enthusiastic about Blacks in general than their White neighbors and that the American Renaissance's anti-wide-open borders position is one that they should share.
JT
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[benno]

if there is so many lies and halftruths in M Moore's new movie then please tell me these inaccuracies,
go on tell me them,
what are they?

is bush corrupt?
has iraq any WMD?
is the saudis and the bush family in cohoots?

the main question for me is can you trust Bush, yes or no? or for that manner, can you trust any politician

i like Moore, he is a good guy fighting corporate america, sticking it to the man, he is a rabble rouser,
you know he could get a bullet at any time from some red neck freak

and people criticize him for all sorts of things,
some even complain about his weight!

[distiller]

JT,

So then under your logic we should give equal consideration to every article and book ever written regardless of who wrote it. I don't need to read the Klan's literature or Mein Kaumf to know that it is garbage, the same goes for the American Renaissance. I'm not saying dimiss everything without reading it but when you know full well that something is coming from a racist organization you have to at least question the accuracy and impartiallity of its statistics.

For example, if you read a study by the Heritage Foundation you know they are an ultra conservative think tank and that they will gather data and present information in a way that best fits their propoganda. So you would think twice about the legitamacy of any numbers coming out of them. The same might be said for People for the American Way on the left. This is exactly why when people want to seriously discuss something they use impartial sources so that their arguement is not tainted by the data collector and representer. Hence stats, figures and theories from the Heritage foundation are right leaning, those from People for the American Way are left leaning and those from American Renaissance are white supremist leaning. Now who's going to believe anything coming from an organization with strong white supremist ties? I'd double check if they told me the sky is blue.

As for your personal beliefs, does that mean then that you are anti-cultural diversity and favor mono-culturalism? That in itself borders on racism and is highly impractical in this age of globalization. Most people are against ultra-PC movements, so much so that such movements hardly exist. Mostly they are inventions of angry white men to give them an excuse to mouth off at minorities without being called racist. I just hope you're not one such person.

[jeddahteacher]

By my logic it is necessary to click a link and examine the article to determine where the article itself is from then exert oneself in reading the article and then judging it on its merits.

Perhaps you have not noticed that there are numerous countries in Asia with extremely restrictive policies towards immigration that are prospering in the global economy.

JT

[jeddahteacher]

Steemed Benno,
http://www.spearhead.com/0408-jt1.html

"From the beginning of this sordid affair it was perfectly plain to anyone with a modicum of common sense that the so-called 'weapons of mass destruction' that were cited as reason to attack Iraq were a product of the imagination of cynical propagandists who had their own particular political agenda and were only seeking excuses for the war on which they were bent. We said this again and again in Spearhead - long before the new evidence (or lack of it) came to light as a result of the investigations of Dr. Hans Blix and countless others. And the idea that a country like Iraq would deploy such weapons, even if she had them, at the risk of annihilation by US and other Western forces was something belonging to fantasy. We said this too - over and over again." - John Tyndall
--------------------------
Oh my, I have cited a wicked racist. I am so ashamed!

[distiller]

I followed your links that's how I found out how racist that organization is. My favorite part, though, was where you didn't refute anything, instead you found something completely unrelated to race said by a racist. Does that mean that if I find a quote about how to fix a carborator by Joseph Stalin that he is good guy too? We could erase all the nastines of histroy this way, you're a genius! I just found a quote about how yummy chocolate is by Hitler!

[benno]

jeddahteacher i followed your link
some interesting points no doubt, but its a pity im not a BNP supporter!
are you one?

[jeddahteacher]

Dear Benno,
I am not a member of any party.
I admire Mr. Tyndall's clarity and value his opinions.
I also do not believe in judging a book by its cover.
Cheers,
JT
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New immigrants are not going to pay huge taxes to support old childless white sex degenerates in Yuppie style. I personally think the immigrants are instead going to put the pre-existing degenerates into Reservations, just like last time. - Robert Frenz

Oh my! I did it again!
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By the way it may be of interest that while 8% of Mexico's population has been encourage to move to the USA the Mexican army is stationed on their southern fontier keeping out the people from further south and becoming a Mexican citizen is not made easy. Smart government they have down there.

[benno]

yes but Mr John Tyndall does seem a little racist!

[Ben Round de Bloc]

[distiller]

Here we go again with the random stat machine. How exactly do you encourage 8% of a population to do anything? That does not even make any sense! Have you been reading the American Renaissance again JT? Why do you have such an affinity to anyone who is against multi-culturalism? You still didn't answer my question earlier to clarify your position. The longer this thread goes the more you really look like a racist. Maybe it's cool to be one in your book because it's so un-PC. Yeah, you're a real pioneer, reblazing the carefully left behind white supremecy of our forefathers. Who knows what else that is un-PC, like genocide and child labor, you're into? [/quote]

[Stephen Jones]

Actually the main reason the Mexicans are trying to control the Southern border is because of pressure from the US, which is worried about Central Americans making their way through Mexico to the US, just as the British, French and Germans are worried about Ukrainians sneaking into Poland.

[moonraven]

For a brief moment this thread deviated toward the pretension of film criticism. As somone who was a film critic for many years in the US, and who did write a piece for the Albuquerque Journal when Moore's documentary film, "Roger and Me" came out, I would like to point out that for someone to complain--even on this forum--that Moore didn't make another "Citizen Kane", is simply ridiculous. If Orson Weles were still alilve and making films, and decided to make one about Bush Junior, I am relatively safe in predicting that he would not attempt to make another "Citizen Kane".

How many credible films have been made since "Citizen Kane" was released? At least a few thousand. If film critics measured every picture that came out against "Citizen Kane", they would not have any readers. I used to keep a Top 100--and even with its botched studio ending, Welles' "The Magnificent Ambersons" was higher on my list than "Citizen Kane".

Fortunately, the film milieu is very diverse. Although the major industry is in Hollywood, where it's very hard to put together the funding for a film that isn't a formula box-office hit, a few pictures that are not strictly party line US imperialism are produced every year--thanks to folks like Robert Redford and his Sundance Institute. The same can be said for Latin America, Europe, Asia, Australia--and even Africa. To complain that every film--especially a documentary--must have as its priority a strictly artistic purpose is just as totalitarian as demanding that it must have an "uplifting social message". The majority of films made in the former Soviet Union that promoted the party line of socialism were far inferior to those in which the director followed his own path--Sergei Paradzhanov's "Shadows of Forgotten Ancestors", for example (Paradzhanov spent time in the slammer because of his original approach to film-making).

Moore made a very political film. He is a very political guy. And he is also a good citizen, given that he is touring the US between now and the November 2nd election showing the film gratis and encouraging folks to get out and vote. I am leaving Mexico next Tuesday to spend a month in the US giving presentations about US interventionism in Latin America and also urging folks to get out and vote. A lot of folks who whine about Michael Moore and his "propaganda" spend most of their lives in front of the boob tube watching PROPAGANDA--not "Citizen Kane". I call that hypocrisy. And stupidity.