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lajzar
Joined: 09 Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Location: Saitama-ken, Japan
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 Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2004 8:47 am Post subject: |
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About once a week I give my students a wordlist (max 10 words) and tell them there will be a test on those words next lesson. That is the limit of the homework. The workdlist is always related to teh current or next topic, but since homework is not legally mandated, I can't plan lesson son the assumption that it is done.
Basically, it helps the enthusiastic kids to get more out of class, and the test scores of course go into their participation mark, knocking down the weaker students. But to deliberately make the lesson impossible for those who haven't done that study is un-necessilariuy cruel. |
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Sweetsee
Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Posts: 2302
Location: ) is everything
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| Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2004 9:34 am Post subject: |
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Lajzar,
Good on you! You teach uni?
Hey CrazyTeacher,
What site were you referring to in your comments? (ESID?!?!?) |
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crazyteacher
Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 34
Location: Tokyo
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| Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2004 10:52 am Post subject: "Dont forget your shovel if you want to go to work" |
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Lajzar said:
" But to deliberately make the lesson impossible for those who haven't done that study is un-necessilariuy cruel."
Yes thats true. I`m sure glad I dont do that!
ESID is "everyones situation is different"
http://www.angelfire.com/comics/esid/
Next weeks homework is to look at this website and laugh.  |
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| lajzar wrote: |
| But to deliberately make the lesson impossible for those who haven't done that study is un-necessilariuy cruel. |
Nobody on this thread, to my knowledge, has suggested this. Here, for instance, is what I've written in my previous posts:
"1/week is simply too little exposure to English as it is; without assigning relevant homework to reinforce learned skills over the week, I found that most students would show up each class literally back on square one, with no memory of what went on before. Of course, the trick was finding homework assignments that were both fun (and so not considered "punishment") and led to real learning."
"These students would have one 90-minute class of English per week...total. Outside of this class, they'd received no exposure at the university to English...period. Given this reality, I felt that in-class work--by itself--was insufficent, that a fun work assignment designed to reinforce class study objectives would help them remember more for the next week."
Where in the above am I advocating anything near to what you suggest?
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| but since homework is not legally mandated, I can't plan lesson son the assumption that it is done. |
Of course "homework is not legally mandated"--is it in any country? (And is failure to submit treated as a felony or misdemeanor?  )
However, a teacher can require homework. Many do--e.g., you had to do homework at some point in your life, right? Not too traumatized by the experience, I hope?
And yes, there's good and bad homework, and certainly, there are teachers out there who abuse the practice, using it as a sort of punishment. However, a fun homework assignment designed to reinforce class study objectives/activities, in my experience, only helps students. Especially given that most university language classes meet just 1/week for 90 minutes, you need to find ways to make them think in/about English during at least some of their time away from class.
Of course some students will not want to do the homework no matter how interesting or potentially helpful it is. This is true of not just Japanese students--heck, I'd say this phenomenon happens in all classes at all schools all over the world. However, why cater to these students? Why design your courses around them?
I guess I just don't understand the problem some of you have with homework. Each semester for 6 years, I typically taught 2 ippan kyouiku classes, 1 conversation class, 1 writing class, and 2 enshuu/kougi classes--the latter 4 were for English/education majors only, and typically had 10-20 students. While a number of students in the 50+ ippan kyouiku classes would not do the homework (and would not receive credit), I must say that I never had a problem getting students in the other classes to do their homework. Indeed, most liked doing it, finding it helpful and interesting. |
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guest of Japan
Joined: 28 Feb 2003
Posts: 1601
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 1:42 am Post subject: |
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I teach in a private Japanese high school. I have two types of classes. One is a first year oral communication class, the other is a second year writing class. I almost never assign homework to the first year class. With the second year class I occasionally assign writing assignments, but only if the students have wasted too much of their in class time. In general I find most students will do the work.
The assignments I give are not meant to introduce new material. Rather they are a cummulative review of writing units. If students choose not to do them the class will not be effected at all. However, it is in the students interest to do them. I check and proofread all the papers (I don't usually assign a grade) and return them promptly so that students can see their strengths and weaknesses clearly and have material to study from for the two major tests each semester.
When I worked at an eikaiwa I assigned homework to enable future lessons to go more smoothly. Because most students were motivated and because I was infamous for having challenging classes the homework was usually done. |
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valley_girl
Joined: 22 Sep 2004
Posts: 272
Location: Somewhere in Canada
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| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 7:55 pm Post subject: Re: WOW! |
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| crazyteacher wrote: |
valley_girl said:
" In my classes (I also teach at a university), students who don't do homework lose points from their "participation" mark. "
Yeah I tried that at first but as you might imagine it didnt really have the same impact. I found that students just kept losing marks until they failed. You might say "Well, whats wrong with that?" But I think this is punishment but not rehabilitation. Making the students stand in the hallway untill the end of the first activity changes thier behavior.
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Kicking them out is "rehabilitation"? I disagree. Furthermore, assuming that the students have paid to take these classes, I don't feel that I as their instructor have the right to tell them to leave simply because they didn't do homework/assignments. They paid, they stay. If they lose points and fail out, that is their own problem because they were given ample warning about what would happen if they didn't do the work. In my class, attendance is more important than homework because the focus is on language. If they are sitting at home twiddling their thumbs they are not learning anything. If they show up, they at least might learn something - homework having been completed or not.
I should add - for the record - that although most of my students are Asian, and specifically some are Japanese, I do not teach at a Japanese university but at a Canadian one. Perhaps this is the difference. I really do not know as I haven't had the experience of teaching in Japan. |
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crazyteacher
Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 34
Location: Tokyo
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| Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 12:21 am Post subject: |
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valley_girl said:
" Kicking them out is "rehabilitation"? I disagree."
Thats ok. I didnt expect everyone to agree with me but would you mind giving me your reasons for thinking this way.
I think "rehabilitation" means changing the persons behavoir. Making the students wait in the hallway untill the first activity is over does change the students behavior. I`m not trying to be cruel (If I did I would just kick students out at random, That would be evil!) I`m not even to worried about punishment. I dont want to just keep deducting points from students untill they fail. I want them to pass but to do that they must do homework.
"Furthermore, assuming that the students have paid to take these classes, I don't feel that I as their instructor have the right to tell them to leave simply because they didn't do homework/assignments. They paid, they stay."
Well when I go to the gym (that I paid for) I still need to bring the correct equiptment and follow the rules or I cant workout.
Also you said "simply" I guess homework isnt an important part of your class. (Very common this, many teachers never give homework) so you dont see it as proper grounds for kicking a student out. Thats ok but in my class homework is very important so I feel it is justified.
"If they lose points and fail out, that is their own problem because they were given ample warning about what would happen if they didn't do the work."
This is a very common atitude but I call this the "Revenge Method" because the focus is on punishment not rehabilitation.
" In my class, attendance is more important than homework because the focus is on language."
Sorry, I dont understand this comment. Do you mean "spoken" language?
"If they are sitting at home twiddling their thumbs they are not learning anything. If they show up, they at least might learn something - homework having been completed or not."
All true but I dont send the students home. When I say "kick out" I mean they have to wait in the hallway untill the first activity (based on the homework) is over. Perhaps this is a bit misleading.
Even the students waiting in the hallway can still be learning. They can be getting a headstart on next weeks homework or studying for the weekly quizzes. |
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Laura C
Joined: 14 Oct 2003
Posts: 211
Location: Saitama
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| Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 8:37 am Post subject: |
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It would be a real nightmare boss who would let you continue on doing something wrong and then fire you at the end of the year without warning.
It happened to me!
The Japanese staff did NOTHING about students who were really badly behaved -- getting up and walking around during class, shouting across the room when the teacher was talking, ignoring me when I asked them to take their books out etc. I was only an ALT but I got sick of it and started telling students to be quiet once it was my 'turn' in the class. result -- told not to come back at the end of the semester.
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Sweetsee
Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Posts: 2302
Location: ) is everything
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| Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 11:09 am Post subject: |
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Laura C,
Real sorry to hear that happened. I hope you were able to find a better position because you obviously deserve it. Did you?
_________________________________________
...when one door is closed many more is open...BMW |
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crazyteacher
Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 34
Location: Tokyo
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| Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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Laura C,
Wow, What happened to you is really bad.
When I wrote that I was thinking that it wouldnt happen.
Looking back on the experience can you think of any times one of the staff might have been trying to give you some hints that you were on the wrong track or did they just totally let you continue without any idea of the consequences of your actions (not that I think you did anything wrong)?
Its just so bad when a teacher is fired because they were just acting in good faith and trying to teach as well as they could. Its true that different people have different ideas about what "good teaching" is (A lot of this forum is debate on that topic) but its really sad when a consciencious teacher is fired because she cared too much. Especially when you think of how many burnt out teachers there are that are just putting in the time. |
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Sweetsee
Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Posts: 2302
Location: ) is everything
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| Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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I told you CrazyTeacher. You may think you are doing good but they may be irked. You will never know what they think until you are not asked to return.
You must determine the parameters of acceptable discipline. |
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crazyteacher
Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 34
Location: Tokyo
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| Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 12:35 am Post subject: |
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Well, there is teaching and there is office politics and you have to look after both.
Just a word about "not being asked to return"
If you have been teaching at a school for 3 years (FT or PT with or without a written contract) you are considered a permanent employee of the school so getting rid of you is more difficult. You must be formally fired and they have to give you a reason. Its not just a case of "your teaching services are no longer required"
Like I said "Everybodys situation is different" |
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TokyoLiz
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 12:45 am Post subject: |
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I teach a senior high lit and composition class to returnees, and my coworker teaches them a grammar section once a week. Of course, our in-class activities are dependent on whether they did their homework or not.
Our latest policy is, not handed in on time means no mark. And the no mark goes on their record. Now, unlike your schools, we can't fail a student (escalator school). However, the students must achieve 75% to stay in our specialty returnee English program.
We occasionally put students out in the hallway for violating our English only policy. The students have to compose an essay of at least |
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Laura C
Joined: 14 Oct 2003
Posts: 211
Location: Saitama
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| Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 3:56 am Post subject: |
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Yep, have a great job now, working for a new company and the job is mostly writing so far. It's great and i feel I had a lucky escape.
CrazyTeacher -- no, not a word said! When I would mildly express surprise to the teachers about how the students behaved, they would just agree with me in a sad kind of way. Thinking back, that was probably a way of saying, You can do nowt about it, so don't try!
I am looking into the legal aspect of the whole thing. I was 'leased' to the school by an ALT company, and they were OK about it, offering me something else, so my contract with them wasn't offically terminated, and i don't know what my legal status was at the school. I'd be very interested in hearing from someone who knows if I could take things further, as although it was a few months ago, and I now have a great job so everything worked out for the best, I'm still pretty miffed when I think about it!
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valley_girl
Joined: 22 Sep 2004
Posts: 272
Location: Somewhere in Canada
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| Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| crazyteacher wrote: |
valley_girl said:
" Kicking them out is "rehabilitation"? I disagree."
Thats ok. I didnt expect everyone to agree with me but would you mind giving me your reasons for thinking this way.
I think "rehabilitation" means changing the persons behavoir. Making the students wait in the hallway untill the first activity is over does change the students behavior. I`m not trying to be cruel (If I did I would just kick students out at random, That would be evil!) I`m not even to worried about punishment. I dont want to just keep deducting points from students untill they fail. I want them to pass but to do that they must do homework. |
I guess I just see deducting points for participation as more of a logical consequence and telling students to leave as more of a punishment, the latter being somewhat humiliating and the former being a private matter between instructor and student. It's all a matter of perspective, however. I don't know if either method could be considered "rehabilitation" (in my own view) because the change to the behaviour is out of a desire to not have the resulting consequence or punishment inflicted on them and not out of a desire to do better. JMHO
| Quote: |
"Furthermore, assuming that the students have paid to take these classes, I don't feel that I as their instructor have the right to tell them to leave simply because they didn't do homework/assignments. They paid, they stay."
Well when I go to the gym (that I paid for) I still need to bring the correct equiptment and follow the rules or I cant workout.
Also you said "simply" I guess homework isnt an important part of your class. (Very common this, many teachers never give homework) so you dont see it as proper grounds for kicking a student out. Thats ok but in my class homework is very important so I feel it is justified. |
Homework is not graded in my courses unless it is an actual "assignment" that has to be passed in. Not doing the work makes them less able to participate in class activities and therefore it is considered (by me) to be a failure to fully participate. As for following the "rules", my classroom rules extend beyond homework. Some "rules" result in points deduction (i.e. no homework, speaking a language other than English, etc.) and others result in being dismissed from the class (i.e. threatening or abusive behaviours, disrespecting the instructor or other classmates, etc.). I consider dismissal from class to be a result of extreme behaviour - the same kinds of actions that would result in one getting barred from the gym. If you don't wipe the equipment after using it, that is generally breaking a gym rule but you won't necessarily (I hope) be thrown out for it. Starting a fight in the gym would warrant a ban, however, I am quite sure. 
| Quote: |
"If they lose points and fail out, that is their own problem because they were given ample warning about what would happen if they didn't do the work."
This is a very common atitude but I call this the "Revenge Method" because the focus is on punishment not rehabilitation. |
How is my method 'revenge' and yours 'rehabilitation'? As I said above, it's all a matter of perspective. I think there is more direct disapproval and anger in your method, whereas mine is a matter-of-fact cause-and-effect action which I do not even address in class beyond the initial warning. The students know that the marks are coming off and I don't need to scold them in class to get them to acknowledge that fact.
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" In my class, attendance is more important than homework because the focus is on language."
Sorry, I dont understand this comment. Do you mean "spoken" language? |
I focus on all aspects of second language acquisition (speaking, listening, reading, and writing) irregardless of the 'subject' that is being taught. There is a big difference in the learning that will take place in the classroom and outside the classroom. If these students were able to learn ESL/EFL by staying at home, why would they spend oodles of yen/dollars on English lessons? I won't even state the obvious. I'm sure you know what the answer is.
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"If they are sitting at home twiddling their thumbs they are not learning anything. If they show up, they at least might learn something - homework having been completed or not."
All true but I dont send the students home. When I say "kick out" I mean they have to wait in the hallway untill the first activity (based on the homework) is over. Perhaps this is a bit misleading. |
Thank you for clarifying that. I did have an image in my mind of an instructor "from Hell" at the front of the room shouting at students to get their things and get out. I don't think your method is bad, but I honestly think that there are better ways to handle the no-homework situation. "To each his own", as the saying goes.
Please excuse the massive quoting, by the way. I just wanted to address several of your rebuttals and it was necessary to highlight them to avoid any confusion or misinterpretation.  |
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