Job Discussion Forums

[R]

Nothing at all, Sunaru, I was just making sure i had everything covered!

Shonai Ben: thank you. I'm really looking forward to it! I''m trying to persuade a friend that he wants to go too, toherwise it'll be just me ambling about and gawping at things.

[gerard]

Isn't the real villian here ads like this--TEACH IN ASIA NO EXP NEEDED(OR WANTED) 30K AND MORE FREE AIRFARE AND ACC. NOW NOW NOW ba reqd-- If you call and ask if maybe a tesl would be a good idea-NONONO NOW NOW...Nothing to it,play around...So people think the job is for them and get angry about the little BA catch. They think they are teachers if they grew up speaking English. And for the Bushibans and Hagwans of the world they are real teachers.

To the original poster (remember him) you were not a backpacker as you had a BA and TESL. You were qualified legally and otherwise to look for jobs. When I think backpacker I think of somebody floating around and when the cash gets low they grab a gig teaching. A few years gp by and that is all they know. To them there is no such thing as good or bad teaching just keep getting paid man!!!

I will come clean here. I am not crazy about teaching and am not even very good at it. However I know the students (ie the parents) are paying and so I put on a brave face and do my best. I do more than that in fact. I assign written work (I do not have to) which,in China, means I correct hundreds of pages a week. I also make myself available at all times and this means sometimes doing what amounts to tutoring -free- from sunup till sundown. What I am saying is I know some on this forum are highly qualified teachers and I respect their opinion. I am not in this category--I feel out of my league in fact. But I make an effort and I think it is more than can be said of many.

I usually am anti-long posts so thank you.

[Wolf]

gerard has a good point.

In my experience in Japan some (and by "some" I mean "all") of the eikaiwas WANT people that get described as "backpackers" on this forum. Young, fresh faced, off the boat/plane/donkey cart/whatever.

***Digression to support point. Skip if you like***

My eikaiwa went out of business last year. So, after 3 years teaching there, I tried to find work. Easy as pie, yes? Well, sic et non, as I found out. I began job hunting. I remember going to this one place in Tokyo (lots of the posterior knapsack people go there cuz it has cheap temporary housing for foreigners.) When I walked in thought I had walked into a nightclub instead. If hired, I would have been the most experienced teacher on staff. And the only non - Japanese who can communicate in that language. Anyway, this place had its own karaoke bar. And a DVD room. And some wierd coffe bar place. Other lounges. Computer rooms. Computer classrooms. And oh, yes, as an utter afterthought and EFL classroom or two. I told them "This is all fine and good, but I'm really hoping to get a chance to teach classes." But no. In a 7 hour day I would have had one, mabye two classes tops. I refused the job.

***Okay, shoud be more coherent now***

Anyway, when I got to Japan I was 22 with a BA. But I wanted to teach. I realized in my first year that I didn't have the skills I needed to help people. I had no money to travel (paying of student loan) But I didn't want to give up and go back. I LOVED teaching. Over time I learned as much as I could. I know that I owe my livelihood to companies that would have taken ANYONE that fit the stereotype of a "natibu supikaa. But I'm not too proud of it. My abilities as a teacher, at least in my first year, were, well, shocking. But I WANTED to become a good teacher. I'm on my fourth year now. I'm about to start my MA.

No, that wasn't too coherent either.

Okay, the morals of the story are:

1) In some countries they want disposable teachers and not professionals. I've been in union negotiation sessions and heard managers say that to my face.

2) Many job postings say BA only, so many (some?) people who've got that and nothing else will try to teach because they WANT TO TEACH. Yeah, they'll be truly awful unless they're savants. But unless they happen upon info like this board before hand, they won't know any better. It has been said many times that the industry has no regulation, so there's no one to tell newbies anything. But they can learn. And they can BECOME good teachers. At the cost of many, many classes. It's an awful trade off, I admit. But a good, expereinced teacher must start SOMEWHERE.

3) #2 only applies to some. Sure, a dog and pony showman (or showwoman) can keep people entertained. But you have to know what you're doing (and have students who have at least some desire to study) to actually teach anything. I have seen it with my own two eyes again and again and again and again and again and again and ... and I've only taught for 4 years.... If you don't care about your job, how could you possibly do it consistantly better than someone who does.

These are only my personal reflections, to be sure.

[Stephen Jones]

-----"I assign written work (I do not have to) which,in China, means I correct hundreds of pages a week."------

Evidently, none of those pages are your own.

[xiaoyu]

Wow! a wonderful thread, with lots of interesting opinions. am honestly glad to see some understanding given to the "backpackers" that run rampant in the ESL field.

I began working (full-time) in the ESL world in July 2001. I considered myself to be a "backpacker", as it seemed that was the term used for novices. Sure, I had a BA in International Economic Development in Asia with a minor in Sociology. I had 5 yrs of French under my belt and 1.5 yrs of Mandarin Chinese. I had already worked as a tutor for numerous foreign students in university (as well as tutoring their children in English). But I still considered myself to be a "backpacker".

After my tour in China I came to the decision that, more often than not, the term backpacker really applies to a person's work ethic (though a smaller amount can go towards their understanding of English language and grammar). By that I mean that someone with little to no experience can, through their hard work, become a capable teacher. Notice I said capable, not awe-inspiring!

I no longer consider myself a backpacker. I am not currently certified to teach ESL, nor do I have years upon years of experience. I use my past experiences with foreign languages and cultures to assist my teaching methods. I study hard (looking into different teaching methods used in ESL). I ask questions of other ESL teachers and my friends who teach stateside. I speak to my sister (a speech pathologist and audiologist) to find ways to help people pronounce sounds that they are not accustomed to making in their native language. I listen and I learn.

Maybe, I am the exception to the rule. Maybe, some will consider me to still be a backpacker. I have my own opinions on that and on those who will make such a decision without giving a great deal of thought to the person and situation.

There is definitely a need for a more understanding reaction to the newbies and possible "backpackers" who post questions on these forums, IMO. I don't often post directly to the forum, but when I do I try to remember that these newbies are in truth.... students. They have not yet become teachers (if one ever does.... don't we always stay students to some extent?).... and are looking to those with more experience to give them helpful, concise advice. Sure some of the postings verge on the ridiculous, but remember, there are some who have the ability (regardless of what we may perceive presently) to become capable (if not awe-inspiring) ESL instructors.

Carolyn aka xiaoyu

*When I find myself fading, I look inside and find strength in my family and friends.

[gerard]

[cheryl]

hello everyone,

since i'm too damn lazy to read ALL the posts in this thread, i apologize in advance for possibly being repetitive.

I agree with Xnihil's initial post. In a sentence or two, i think all that he's saying is, "take out the 'tone' and answer the questions BUT if you don't want to answer the questions due to their complete stupidity then by all means, don't".

Being a newbie myself, i have noticed the "tone" Xnihil is refering to. Fortunately for yourselves i have not been a victim to it otherwise this post would have become a RANT!! But i've seen it in responses to other posts....i don't see the reason why posters (who shall remain nameless) need to respond back with hostility. This is a forum for all ES/FL teachers new or old or prospective isn't it?

just because the majority of people who want to ride the ES/FL train, for what many 'seasoned' teachers may think are the wrong reasons, i don't think it's right to assume that all newbies would most likely have these 'wrong reasons' as THEIR reasons. (Did that paragraph make sense? i couldn't make it more clear.)

As to posts such as, "i've just finished university, have never taught a man, woman, child, or dog, and don't want to spend the time or money getting my CTESL. Where can i go to teach English?". Well, even i a total newbie to teaching can say, "oh my lord", BUT say it in my head. A response to this obviously "stupid" post can still remain "toneless", and if responders cannot keep the "tone" out of their responses, then why respond at all...leave it to the more tolerant. There's a lot more i could say but i gotta get my butt to Toronto...take care all,

Cheryl

[bnix]

I've been winding you,too.But maybe you have been smoking too much of that Laotian rope to notice Give my regards to the Montagnards the next time you see them!

[bnix]

"Atlantis"....as sung by Donovan (Leach). I believe the flip side of the single was "Jennifer Juniper". No,I am not sure if those are the exact lyrics...but they are close.He also sang"Mellow Yellow"...the "Hurdy Gurdy Man"...and a few others.Sort of an alternative Bob Dylan...or something.

Anyway,Sunaru...you get around! From Uranus to Atlantis!!What happened?Uranus get overcrowded with TESOL "teachers"?

As for Cheryl(AKA"Ligthning Rod"),despite her disclaimer to the contrary her post did sound like a rant to me,albeit a mild-mannered rant(is there such a thing?)

The newbies...well,some are just young, innocent...naive....not dry behind the ears(NO,not all of them)...but it is pretty obvious from her post that she is new to this business.

Sunaru,have fun 'way down there with the fishies...but where will you head next if it gets too crowded down there?

[bnix]

The characters following "sea"in the title...a typo...just could not believe that Sunaru had actually made it to Atlantis...

[cheryl]

"lightening rod"? well i have been hit by the occasional stray lightening bolt while sitting alone on a field in the middle of a storm....but i wouldn't consider myself a "lightening rod"! and hey, if anyone with a God complex feels the need to shoot me down, by all means, bring it on! Oh, and btw, who was the OLD "lightening rod"?

bnix - tsk, tsk, tsk, hunny bunny, if you thought THAT was a rant, you've been playing with the newborns!!

"but it is pretty obvious from her post that she is new to this business."
were u just reiterating what i had explicitly stated? not a criticism, just a question....

[bnix]

They just retire to Brno.Well,Cheryl,even for a newbie...you seem to be getting into this cynicism game...does not take long,I guess.Out of curiosity,do you have something against using the caps key? As people will tell you,I LIKE the caps key!

God complex..well I don't know...like I said in another thread...all the little gods and goddesses,so maybe some of them do have that kind of complex.On the other hand,some are not complex at all,actually exceedingly simple,if you get my drift.If you really want to go into this "profession"...well,GOOD LUCK!

[cheryl]

sorry to the rest of you who actually come here for posts related to the topic, this will be my last unrelated post.

bnix - i don't use the caps key, doesn't mean i hate it. i don't eat peanut butter either, doesn't mean i have anything against it. also, i'm not thinking of 'going' into this profession, i am in the profession. As for my cynicism, did you mean sarcasm? i'm hardly cynical, but then how would you know that?

[Stephen Jones]

Dear Cheryl,
Don't you think that punctuating sentences correctly forms a part of "this profession"?

Or do you think that, like the waitress at a fast food restaurant, you can reply: "We don't do capital letters here; try further down the road".