Job Discussion Forums

[JimDunlop2]

I have a rather specific question (particularily those who are teaching HS/JHS). When it comes to using foul language, what is your policy a) in a formal, classroom setting or b) informally e.g. in the hallways between class.

Many of these kids learn this stuff from TV or older students (or wherever) but because English isn't their native language, curse words and insults mean nothing to them (they have a hard enough time introducing themselves)... When they learn this stuff, they want to show off their newly-found prowess to their English teacher -- me -- who is usually less than impressed.

For example, today during class one of my 2nensei JHS students started interrupting the class, yelling: " I am Japanese! F**K you!" Then, at least two other students started repeating it too. Both I and the JTE ignored it, and after class I requested that the JTE have a talk with the offending student, indicating that in the future he would not be welcome in my class with that kind of language, and that his behavior would be reported to his homeroom teacher.

I suppose, this may have been the best way to deal with it, given the circumstances, but I'm curious to get other teachers' feedbaack on it.

Additionally, I would appreciate any feedback on how you deal with specific situations like this when they are not in a classroom context. For example having students coming up to you in the hall saying, "Mr. XXXX -- F**K off!" Now here's the thing. The only reason why they're even saying it is to get a rise out of their foreign English teacher... You have the option of a) addressing it -- in which case the student KNOWS he has achieved his desired effect with his utterance. OR b) ignoring it -- in which case you may risk the student interpreting that as: "Oh..... That must not be so bad after all" and continuing to use that language until innevitably someone points it out to them and they are validated. "Aha! I WAS right, after all!" Fortunately this has not happened to me very often, but even the few times that it has are a few too many.

What do you think?

[Glenski]

Unless they are just in it for the shock effect, or unless they keep it up, I'd say ignore it at first. If you must confront them, do it together with the homeroom teacher and/or someone who can translate clearly for you. Just tell them it is not language for the classroom/school setting.

I had a girl write something foul on an exam recently. She was describing her opinion on a topic, and wrote something like, "That is total *beep* !!!" While the grammar was quite perfect, and it expressed her feelings accurately, I circled the word and took off points.

[Nismo]

Japan isn't a christian society. Swearing is no big deal. I prefer Japanese society, but that's an entirely different topic and would be a major rant on America. So you'll just have to inform them not to cuss when in an English speaking christian society and just learn to shrug it off when you hear it if it offends you. They're just words.

I would hear kids constantly using 'fuzakeru na' and whatnot, and as long as it wasn't directed at someone above them, no one really cared. So if they are cussing in English, just teach them about polite society, but don't try and make them dismiss it entirely.

[TokyoLiz]

We have a policy that, should a returnee swear in class, s/he must write a letter of apology to both the class and the teacher. One student, in his apology letter, explained that his father had used the choice phrase in question because it lent authenticy to his English! Sometimes our students don't take the offense that seriously. However, blue language usually results in our students giggling in class, and it disrupts the lesson. Swearing can also deflate their arguments. So often, my students are passionate about a topic and resort to expletives to try to convey their emotions. Um, er, I guess I should be teaching them more adjectives...

In the regular stream, some first year juniors were swearing (at each other) because they'd learned it from their returnee peers. They thought that swearing made them sound tough. I cautioned them that they're not to use that kind of language either in the classroom or out on the street. The main concern in the street is that they could get into a fight should they choose the wrong target - gaijin, other English-speaking kids - and after all, they represent our school when they're in uniform.

The only time I've been the target of cuss words was with some discipline problem kids at a miserable school. Two boys in the junior high hated all the teachers, were violent and frequently told teachers to f off in either language. Although the vice principal had been informed of the problem, little was done to keep the two under control.

I quit

[canuck]

If you teach with a Japanese teacher, I would convey to the students that it is not appropriate to use that kind of language. In addition, it isn't appropriate to say that to you in the hallway. Depending on your relationship with the Vice Principal, I would use him/her as the heavy.

I teach a class alone. I don't accept that language in class. The first time a student used that kind of language, I warned him and told him why...it's inappropriate and disrespectful. If it were to happen again, I would place a chair in the hallway and sit the student out there during the class. After class, I would speak to the home room teacher.

I wouldn't accept an verbal harassments. Neither would the Japanese staff. Don't accept anything less than the same standards.

[AgentMulderUK]

[JimDunlop2]

I agree -- Christianity is not necessarily a prerequsite for offensive language. But I can see what the person who posted that was trying to say. In our Judeo-Christian Western upbringing we develop certain sensitivities to some words or concepts that get taught as being taboo.

Japan doesn't have that -- at least not in that same way. But many non-Christian cultures have equally insulting (and I'd say even worse) words that can be used.

Some traditionally Catholic-Christian societies (like the Canadian French-speakers) prefer to swear against the church. Invoking chalices of Christ and tabernacles is much more powerful than words describing genitalia or what you do with it...

As an aside, a Korean friend of mine recently taught me a good Korean swear word: sakura. She said that Korean people use it to mean something like: "son-of-a-b****" because it refers to the name given to Japanese soldiers that invaded Korea and raped the women.

I'm still working on the Japanese swearing bit. It's hard to understand a language where words aren't really that potent -- it's how you say them, and the manner in which they are said. Case in point: I hear kids say "kuso" all the time in earshot of adults and there's no problem. On the other hand, I've been told, that if you REALLY want to express your disgust with someone, a nasty scowl and a well-placed gutteral "Nan-da... Omae wa" is akin to telling someone... "And just WHO the F*** do you think you are?"

Anyway.. I digress. Thanks for the viewpoints guys. Especially TokyoLiz. I like the letter idea. I may incorporate that at some point.

JD

[crazyteacher]

Nismo said

" So you'll just have to inform them not to cuss when in an English speaking christian society and just learn to shrug it off when you hear it if it offends you. They're just words. "

yeah I agree. I tell them something like "Hey, I dont care. In this class, OK. I know its just a joke for you but if you say this in America someone will punch you"

Yeah they are just words. This might be different if the student really knows what hes saying and really means it.

[king kakipi]

Along Crazy's line, I comment that using that kind of language in an English Speaking Country may result in receiving a 'Glasgow Kiss' ( and then do a restrained demo, followed by a 'kyotsukete'*). It has worked so far on the couple of occasions I have used it. Gets a laugh too....
* (can write that in hiragana but can't get the hang of that romaji rubbish...sorry )

[Nismo]

For those of you asking what this has to do with christianity, explain to me why in America we have so many censored words on television, yet in Japan the only two words banned are "ma*ko" and "chi*po". America is a christian society, whether you like it or not, and Japan is not. If you were born and raised in a Christian society, whether you are Christian or not, if you take offense to the word f*ck, you have been influenced. (this is paralleled with American views of nudity - it's the result of a Christian society. There is nothing wrong with a breast.)

I am not saying you should teach your kids to cuss, but rather teach them the appropriate times to cuss. And yes, there are appropriate times for cussing, and in the classroom is not one of them. You can cuss with your group of friends, for instance. Explain to them that America works in the same way that Japan does - respect your elders and use proper language with them. With your friends, go at it.

[AgentMulderUK]

[stephw]

how about a 'fun' class of swear word jeopardy? teaches them how to swear and in what context - in europe, this was always a successful class at least. (must admit, i've never used it in asian classes, in china it wouldn't go down too well with my 8 year ols parents, i'm sure!) make sure that you underline that you are not teaching them these words for use in later classes though...pm me if you want an outline of the game...

[JimDunlop2]

stephw: it's an interesting suggestion... And don't take this the wrong way... But isn't that like teaching your son about sex by taking him to a prostitute and then saying "But you're not allowed to do this after until you're married."

/just sayin'

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

JimDunlop2 wrote:

[king kakipi]