Job Discussion Forums

[mehrlin26]

Have any of you ever returned from abroad and found difficulty get a job? Any kind of a job, whether it was related to teaching or not?

By the way, this isn't a recruitment pitch, it's just a question.

[GambateBingBangBOOM]

Issues with getting a job in Canada when you return are:

1. There are very, very few jobs available for teaching ESL. Fewer if you expect to be able to live off of it.
2. If you want to work in another field, you need experience in that field. If all of your experence is in ESL, then you have to pretty much start over (which means you need to know people in order to get in, or you need to go back to school).
3. If you have experience in another field and left to teach ESL, some employers may take that as a indicator that you aren't serious about their field.
4. If you decide to try for something like retail management trainee where there isn't a whole lot of pre-training required (generally they require a post-secondary education for outside recruites) and people come and go all the time so leaving and coming back isn't that big a deal, then an issue you face is that some of the people who do the interviewing may feel intimidated. They may not want to ask questions about your overseas employment because they don't know much about it, and so that doesn't leave much to talk about. They may also fear that you will just quit on them and go overseas again if the job isn't very fulfilling.

[AcidBurn]

Job market is tight in Canada now.

But if you want just �any job�, I would look into working at a call center. It�s a booming industry here in Edmonton. Companies like Convergys will hire just about anyone and train you themselves. Pay varies from $10-$14 an hour. Not a heck of a lot, but you can live off it in Edmonton.

I presently work at a call center and this is the worst job I�ve ever had. You have no opportunity for advancement; they expect you to be available 24-7, and they can change your schedule at the drop of a dime; the working conditions are awful; you really get frustrated because it�s a �limiting� job and if the company really screws the customer � like mine � there isn�t a hell of a lot one can do aside from towing the party line; it�s insanely busy; you get people yelling and screaming at you all the time; and a lot of times, companies won�t give you any benefits. Turnover is insane and it�s incredible how short some people last.

[mehrlin26]

Thanks for the replies.

Grim news then, but I have to say, not wholly unexpected.

This is actually my second time back. The first time I worked in Korea, I came back and encountered pretty much the conditions that you described. I don't want to be too negative but it seems to me that the job market in Canada seems to be exclusively retail and/or call centres. Sometimes it seems like the whole economy here is based on big box stores. I had hoped that things had improved the second time I was gone but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Speaking personally, I've had enough of teaching overseas, which is why it is so frustrating to have to go back to that grind because there's nothing better at home.

The future is not Orwell's but Kafka's.

[GambateBingBangBOOM]

Don't rule out going to a community college for one of those one-year post-graduate certificates in Ontario- I don't know if other provinces have them because I'm from the centre of the world. (I'm assuming you already have a BA/BSc/BFA or whatever). Many, many people get jobs very quickly or immediately after taking them (it's true that quite a few do not, and that the community colleges will sort of brush that aside).

So there are jobs (in communications, in marketing, in HR etc.) but you need an in, like the one year certificate programmes (50% of the point in taking them is to learn the information they teach, 50% is to get a field placement/contacts in order to get a job). Entry level jobs are not advertised because there is never a reason to do so. Even intermediate jobs are normally not advertised, although occasionally you will se one- in the industry specific trade magazine.

An issue with these certificates is that a lot of the time they are very industry specific, so there isn't a lot of moving room to go to other areas and you really don't know much about the industry until you start there. For example, if you like the idea of working in area A you could discover that you are totally unsuited for it because the work is not what you thought it would be, or the work is fine, but the general work environment (i.e. the people) throughout the industry isn't what you thought it would be and you just don't fit in. (Colleges don't go into things like the workplace politics that actually govern the way industries often operate)

You can, for example, take a certificate in TESL to teach English in Canada (and this is often a requirement of getting a full-time job teaching ESL at a language school in Ontario). But just because you took a certificate doesn't mean you WILL get a job. There has to be a job to get, first (and A LOT of schools offer certificates in TESL, so there are A LOT of people out there looking for jobs right now- this leads to things like part time and contract only- and for very, very little money, not enough to live off- because employers can).

Of course it is a risk to do a certificate because it is a year out of the full time workforce and costs the same as a year at college (some are 3 terms and there are diplomas- journalism comes to mind- that are two academic years). There are no guarantees that you will get a job at the end. Colleges always publish that 80 or 90% of graduates get jobs, but fail to mention that these jobs may be only very tenuously related to their training at best, or are short term- one day to a month or so- contracts. I've even heard of companies that routinely take an intern for the required non-paid term, hire them at the end and the following year, when the next crop of interns is looking for a placement, get rid of the previous intern to get a new one. Results 1. Always having a junior staff member to make coffee, do routine photcopying etc. 2. Colleges improve their graduate to job ratio 3. (most importantly) The company only ever pays out 2/3 of the entry level salary (in a 3-term September to August programme).

It sucks but really that's the way it is a lot of the time if you want to work outside of the retail/call centre areas and also want to work in Canada.

[bdawg]

Post-TEFL job hunting is all about marketing oneself. I know I'm not going to be TEFLing this time next year (hopefully). I think that living in a foreign country can be a HUGE assest. That was the main reason I chose China over other countries...anyone who reads the news knows where this country is headed. Every western business wants a piece of China.

I'm also making an effort to stay current. My academic background and pre-TEFL experience is resource/environmental management so I've been keeping up by reading select journals and making sure I know the latest events going on in China and around the world which are related to my field.

It's just marketing. When I head back to Canada I'm going to scout out any company which has an environmental division and is interested in doing business in China...and offer them my services.

After this year is over I hope to be very familiar with the geography, customs, practices and even a little bit of the language. Furthermore, I also hope to make some good contacts, get some guangxi (I think the term is). I remember reading somewhere that one of the main reasons why so many western companies fail in the minefield that is called "business in China" is that they fail to understand anything about the country itself. The walk in with a very western perspective and get destroyed.

[extoere]

RL: Shouldn't there be a comma between the words "post" and "lecturing?" Or were you offered some kinda gizmo that talks back?

And doesn't using the word "square" necessarily make the word "tedious" redundant redundant?

And don't tell me to get a life! Trollin' is a full-time gig. At least for another hour or so.

Cheers,;!
ex

[once again]

If I said that Ludwig was a "big" baby, and that he ran away when he couldn't take the heat anymore, would that be more accurate?