Job Discussion Forums

[Antaraaaa]

[PandaBear]

A comment on the legal position in respect to running an english cnr if it is inclulded in your contract.

According to the Foreign Experts Bur , for which I worked as a consultant for some time, You are only obliged to establish such a facility for your own students i.e.., the class you have a listed teaching responsibility. In addition any time spent doing this activity is part of your contracted contact hours and cannot be worked outside the normal working hours.

If you hve any problems in this regard just tell your University or whatever that you intend to bring this to the attention of the FEB.
Please note. The FEB I am talking about is not the organisation which is located within the university but the National Gove Body which governs the employment of Foreign experts. Beleive me they are good and are on the side of the foreign teachers.

[Sinobear]

Pandabear: Are you, by any chance, associated with the group that purports to "assist" foreign teachers with the gov't although you are, in fact, a recruiter?

Just a question.

[ShapeSphere]

I do an English Corner once a week and yes it is excruciatingly dull. It's 90 minutes of tepid tedium, but my teaching hours are reasonably low and I do almost zero preparation for it. Other teachers where I work have worse schedules, so I just plaster on a fake smile (or sometimes a scowl) and plough through it.

But, the best advice I can give is to go in with lots of ideas to get them talking in GROUPS and NOT asking you the same stupid questions about food/whatever.

Chinese students are utterly devoid of any imagination or creativity, and expect to be spoon-fed dialogue. Break this cycle of dependence.

I go in, write LOTS of ideas on the board. Then get them into groups of 4 or 5 and they have to discuss these issues. I will walk around the class pretending to monitor & listen to their uniform answers and relentless predictability. Do NOT sit down with them, otherwise they will all stop talking and swarm round you to listen. You are then trapped in a sea of platitudes and inanity.

Just keep walking round the class (a moving target if you like) or stand out of sight like I do, and politely refuse invitations to sit down with them. Tell them you will join them later, but want them to use the time to speak English. Most times I might join a group for the last fifteen minutes, but use that time to practice my diplomacy skills by deflecting questions and asking them their views. The rest of the time I stare out of the window, wondering if there are any teachers in China who are happy in their jobs.

Here are some ideas I used in classes to varying degrees of success. They are nothing special, but I am not going to waste my time on people who would never appreciate a good lesson if it came up to them and slapped them in the face:

Write about ten proverbs/sayings/idioms on the board and get them to discuss & guess the meaning and once they understand the meaning, they can they relate it to their own lives; sometimes you will have to prompt them a little.

Sayings used: Dog eat dog, blood is thicker than water, etc., etc. Use the Internet or a good book to find more.

Improvements. They must make things better, then put the topics on the board they must improve - cities, books, lessons, listening, food, sport, transport, etc.

Choices. On the board write 'writer or painter', 'love or money', 'beauty or health', 'tea or coffee', 'night or day', etc. They must make a decision and give reasons.

These above ideas will usually stimulate them into conversation and sometimes off on a tangent. The more intelligent students (all two of them) will talk quite freely about ANY topic and won't need you to prompt them.

I am not a fan of photocopies and heaps of paper, but a very common way used by other teachers (but not me) is to print off an article from the Internet with an interesting news item. They must read it (wastes time - which is great) and then discuss. You could put questions on the board about the article to help.

Don't go in expecting them to talk with their OWN ideas. Some teachers tried that and asked them what they wanted to talk about. They just stared at him like a bunny caught in the headlights of a fast moving car.

Don't talk about politics or religion. But everybody probably knows this anyway.

Hope that helps.

[2 over lee]

ShapeSphere: I think that is the post many of us have been wanting to make.

Grim, practical and true. I really liked the part about being a moving target.

But, but.... we want to talk to you...

[wailingtraps]

Ok,


This is a first me....... sticking up for Roger...but Mr Lubeck...I think your post is a little too wide of the mark and simply wrong!!!!If you're going to pontificate about such learned things..then get your facts right........each learner is different and therefore has different needs ....this is to say they all have different routes to take in the learning of a language......in short there are many kinds of learners......so...other things being equal........pithy catch all statements about language acquistion should be left in the cheap books they came from.....

None of us pretend to know it all...why should you??????????????????

I thank you for all...


New improved wailer

[Ariadne]

ShapeSphere... Your ideas sound good for regular classes, but what if English corner isn't in a classroom? No chalk, no board. We usually have 8-10 native speakers chatting with 10-100 students. The students drift around so it's hard to keep group activities moving. I try to turn the questions around, or insist that they answer my questions before I'll answer theirs, but it's hard to do with new students joining the group all the time. I have encountered some students with excellent English skills who aren't even taking English classes. They really truly go to English Corner to improve their skills and speak in an informal setting, so I don't want to let them down. If the contract says that I have to be there, someone should benefit!

.

[Roger]

Some nice ideas, but difficult to generalise!

Some English corners DON'T come with a board! Besides, I have learnt over the years it's far better to have some student write things on the board... I let them puzzle over the correct spelling; this way there alreayd is some dialogue between some of the class!

But in many cases, you aren't supposed to be using a board, or you are not provided with one.

Also, their intellectual level is not exactly what I wish it was.

In most cases, entertainment is the last, and best, resort.
Rumour game. Works wonders in every class, at every level.
Spelling bee. There are dozens or hundreds of such games. All quite thrilling to some extent. And a lot easier to do than holding discussion...

Adults often go to English corners to pick up a member of the opposite sex. I noticed that a long time ago, and that's a sure indication that talking in English is not very high on their minds!

[ShapeSphere]

Ariadne,

Your English Corner style is a new one to me, but let me try and help with some initial suggestions. This is a lot longer than I had anticipated but I type quickly and I want to help a fellow sufferer.

You say students drift around - that is the first problem and must be stopped immediately. You're the teacher and you're in charge and don't forget it. Here's how:

At the start of the 'lesson' put students into groups, A, B, C, etc. These groups are permanent for the duration of the lesson and if they complain (which they usually do and often), then remind them the groups are random and will be different next time. Give them a card with the group ID on it, so they don't forget or try to mess you about. They can return the cards at the end, so you can reuse them every time.

Then 8-10 teachers are assigned sections of the room to sit and await the group of students. Or you can do it vice versa. The students are made to sit, and you the teachers move around. However, I believe it is better to move students as this enhances the learning process (kinesthetic style) and gives you a break from their robotic ways as they slowly shuffle round.

You're not in a classroom. So where are you?

If you choose my preferred choice, then the teachers remain in the assigned areas and the students come to them in their respective groups. Thus they are organised and can't drift in and out of your groups causing a lack of fluidity.

You have a lot of students 10-100, but you do have a lot of teachers to create a possible good ratio of 1 teacher to 10 students. I know it's difficult to organise Chinese students as they are a chaotic shambles, but persevere as I have done. It pays dividends in the long run. Plus look on the bright side, all this organising wastes time.

Once the students get familiar with this process, then next time they will know the routine and do it quicker. All humans understand routine processes after a while.

I don't know the duration of your 'lesson', but if you have a 60-minute lesson, then you could move them every ten/fifteen minutes. Just ensure all teachers have watches and move the groups on at roughly the same time. It won't be difficult as you can see people as they move.

You have 8-10 teachers, so it's possible that each teacher may have his/her own topic for discussion. However, I am against this as it is more work and could mean you will run out of topic ideas. Better that all teachers work together to create one 'theme' for discussion. Then create questions around this theme. Each teacher will have a unique collection of questions, so each group of students can discuss something original, thus they will appreciate why they are in groups and why they are moving around.

You MUST give them many ideas as I said before; otherwise they will try and talk to you with an endless array of bland statements and banal questions. Tell them you will join in their discussion later when it is flowing and becomes INTERESTING. You must be insistent and clear about this. Keep referring them back to the questions and the purpose of discussion. Eventually they will realise what is required. This will put the onus on them to try and create something stimulating for once in their lives.

Because in my English Corner I only talk to my students for a brief period of time, this has encouraged them to ask their 'best' questions. Their 'best' questions are still pathetic, but they realise that time is precious, so I have removed 90% of the dross they ask.

If you have students with excellent English skills, then I am pleased for you. Put a sign on them marked 'endangered species'. They're rarer than an honest taxi driver. But vitriolic sarcasm aside, then you can use these people to your advantage. They will help you and probably catch on quicker to your plans. Identify and separate the best ones, scatter them across the groups so they can generate discussion.

These are my ideas off the top of my head and I'm only one person. I would recommend that the 8-10 native speakers at your school get together and you could easily come up with something a lot better.

ShapeSphere
Senior Professor of Extremely Long Replies

[ShapeSphere]

Ariadne,

I forgot. You don't have a board, but this is no problem. Just prepare the questions on paper and hand it to them, they can then discuss and give it back when finished. Ideally just tell them a question verbally. Surely they can remember a few questions in their heads ..... hmmm ... probably not.

If you have any more questions then I will try to help when have the time.

Dalaoer's ideas are the best anyway. And the funniest.

[Echo]

My approach:

1: Set rules. No Chinese, no dictionaries - they kill L2 conversation because they require people to think in their L1. If I see students I know to be notorious mobile 'phone addicts present I'll add a "no 'phones" rule as well.

2: Give 5-10 minute spiel about todays topic - this gives them the impression of having attended a traditional classroom setting, so therefore they MUST have learnt something, right? Also, the (very) best students can get quite involved during this.

3: Distribute handouts, some I write and some from the net. A very good source is http://iteslj.org/questions/ but there's tons of stuff out there. I only give out 1 between 2 max - sometimes they complain, but I find it increases interaction if they can't just sit and read in solitary splendour. The persistent complainers get any handouts I have left at the end.

4: "Float" between tables answering questions and stimulating discussion. This means that I will answer any question related to the subject at hand provided I am certain it has already been asked of the other students present. I will sit down at tables, but only for 2-3 minutes each (I check my watch and set a 3-minute time limit). I will not answer personal questions, or anything else that doesn't relate to the topic at hand. Off topic discussions are fine as far as I'm concerned, provided that they're in English, but I devote my time to those students who've come to discuss the posted topic.

5: Leave promptly, saying goodbye. I used to pass out questionnaires for potential new topics at the end, but after a stream of "Something interesting", "Foreign culture", "Everything we need to know" and (nearly every week last year from one particular girl) "Princess Diana" I gave that up as a dead horse.

Works for me, hope this helps.

[mike w]

Lesson preparation; introductory talk; prepared subjects; entertainment - oh silly me! I thought the idea if an EC was for the STUDENTS to talk!

Like I said in an earlier post - if they don't talk, I walk. My teachers are told NOT to prepare - it is not a free lesson. If any preparation is done, it is done by the students, not the teachers. The teacher is at the EC to correct the students' oral English mistakes, NOT to give a free lesson or entertainment session.

[ChinaEFLteacher]

during english corner time: turn off you're lights, close your doors, unplug your phone, and turn on a good movie. if they ask where you were, whatever!
if you're getting paid, there's lots of good suggestions here.

[Ariadne]

I have enjoyed reading all the suggestions for English Corner, from the serious to the... er... not so serious. There seem to be lots of different styles of English Corners. Ours meets in the very large foyer/hall of a campus building. The setup is much like a reception or large cocktail party. There are no chairs although the native speakers often sit on the large staircase. No plan, no blackboard, no handouts. Folks just mill around and move from group to group. Again, very much like a large cocktail party only without the drinks. I don't have the authority (or the desire) to 'organize' the English Corner. Do you have a few hints for things I can do with a constantly changing group?

[Ariadne]

Hey! I'm feeling like an old hand now that I have been beep ed. The word sounds like rocksail, but you all probably knew that.