Job Discussion Forums

[merlin]

Sojourner,

I am sure you will admit that degree mills turn out face-to-face paper degrees as well, so the fact that some distance degrees do the same seems irrelevant. Just because I can get a transcript saying I attended such and such university f2f (face-to-face) for 8 years does not invalidate the degree you got f2f. Distance degree mills in no way invalidate the degree another may have got through a nationally-recognized institution's distance education program.

All universties do things out of economic necessity (for example lower TOEFL requirements). It is a reality of the past 30 years and does not make their degrees less valuable to employeers. But this is a side issue as well, since it can not be stated that online learning is cheaper. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. With information delivery (which is what most face-to-face lecures offer) it is definitely cheaper. With more cognitive constructivist learning (virtually nonexistent in face-to-face universities) the expenses become a bit less clear-cut.

I agree with you that too many teachers overspecialize in applied linguistics and this is a problem online learning inherited from face-to-face courses. An MA in TEFL has always been a mostly theoretical degree with no Foreign teaching practice and very little of practical use to the teacher in foreign lands.

So we see that f2f university courses have never really ensured capable TEFL teachers as, say it Education degrees do. What is the motivation for critics to say distance education fails to do something that f2f education has never done.

What does 5th generation distance education have to offer English teachers and students? Quite a lot, primarily in the area of CALL, which IMHO is stuck in the 3rd generation and about 20 years behind other fields in utilizing information technology as a tool to aid learning.

This is what critics of distance education fear. They fear change. They fear the unknown. Most so-called reasons are on shaky ground.

[merlin]

Just an interesting bit of info.
I read Essential Teacher today Vol. 1 Issue 4 Autmne 2004. It's the magazine TESOL put out. About 50% of the articles deal with using IT in the classroom, mostly through the internet. An article by Gu Peiya titled Leaving the Bathtub to Make Waves says:

[Chris_Crossley]

[struelle]

Gordon,

As always, yours is the one of the voices of reason and clear thought in this form. Myself and others are considering an online Masters and have a few questions about your experience:

- How many hours do you normally spend on the program, that is per day or week?

- Can this be combined with a full or part-time teaching job? Which arrangement would you recommend?

- What is the cost of the program you are doing, and how would it compare with an in-residence program?

That's about it, actually. Looking around for MAL's in Canada, either residence or distance, is turning up very scarce options. Looks like Australia is the best choice here, but I wouldn't want to spend an arm and an leg living there and doing the program.

Steve

[sojourner]

Struelle et al,

There are a number of Australian universities that offer distance learning and online Masters' programmes in Applied Linguistics. I'm currently enrolled in the online programme being run by the University of New England. UNE is a pioneer in both traditional distance learning and the online approaches. That institution, in no way, could ever be regarded as a 'degree mill', with only a PO box number and www address. In fact, UNE has an actual physical ,and quite spacious campus, just outside the northern NSW regional city of Armidale - about 40% of its student body is made up of 'internals', ie to say, students who actually attend on-campus lectures and seminars. UNE has been existence for almost 70 years - for its first 20 years, it was a college of the nation's oldest and most prestigious university,viz.The University of Sydney, before becoming a university in its own right.

Check out UNE's website, at : www.une.edu.au , follow the links to the Faculty of Arts , then to the site for the MA (Applied Linguistics) programme. The person who runs the programme is a Canadian, Dr Karen Woodman . Should you wish to contact her, you'll find her email address at the UNE website.

There are many non-Australians enrolled in the programme. For Nth Americans, one of the biggest attractions of it - apart, of course, from the programme's approach to the subject-matter in question, and the commitment of the teaching staff ! - is the fact that the tuition fees are considerably lower than what you'd pay for similar courses in the US and Canada.

Most of my past academic studies, in both Aust and NZ, took place in on-campus situations.However, I'm most impressed with UNE's online teaching approach. It is possible to complete the degree in two years - two units per semester. However, if enrolling, ascertain the units that will be on offer over the next couple of years - as certain popular subjects may not always be offered every year, it is essential to plan ahead.

One excellent feature of UNE's MA (AL) programme is that one may be given permission to enrol in a couple of units being offered by other institutions, for the purpose of cross-crediting to his/her's UNE degree.Consequently, next year I'll be enrolling in an online unit ('Language for Specific Puposes') that will be offered by Macquarie University. Also, this year at UNE a new unit was introduced that many would find of considerable interest : 'Culture Contact and Hybridity in the Arts of Asia' - a change from the usual units involving linguistics !

Apart from the MA (AL) programme, UNE's School of Education also runs an M.Ed. programme, in which one can do a number of units involving TESOL. However, some on-campus work may be required for this programme.

Besides UNE, Macquarie University also has a very highly regarded online Master's programme in AL.

You might also want to contact Massey University, in NZ, to see whether they have an online Master's programme in AL. Massey is NZ's main distance learning provider.

It might even be worthwhile for you to contact the University of South Africa.That institution has been running distance education programmes for many decades. With the low value of the Rand, their courses may turn out to be real bargains ! Also, it might be worthwhile to check to see if the University of London's External Programmes Department has anything on offer in the area of AL.

In light of my previous posting to this thread, whatever programme you choose, make sure that the university in question is both recognised by the government AND has a high reputation in the academic world. Also, ascertain opinions regarding teaching approaches, study material,etc, from both past and present students of the institution in question. For Australia, all universities are recognised by the Federal Government. Both UNE and Macquarie, apparently, have very good reputations in the academic world. A number of leading lights in the world of Applied Linguistics have, at some time, taught at the latter institution, most notably, David Nunan.

Also, I would be somewhat reluctant to enrol in a 'postgraduate' programme in which non-graduates are also admitted - the content of the programme , itself, might be quite satisfactory, but the news of such 'liberal' admission requirements could 'tarnish' the reputation of such an institution - and, consequently, the perceived standing of its graduates - in the eyes of some of the people who matter to many of us, viz. government HRM/recruitment authorities and administrators at the more traditional universities.

Peter

[merlin]

Chris_Crosley,
By Authentic I think both the author in question and myself mean more so than Side-by-side, Interchange, headway, the Cambridge English course, or whatever texbook you (or I) use in a traditional class.

[Gordon]

[Rice Paddy Daddy]

Gordon in Shikoku is working in a university in Japan with only a B.A.?



Is your school reputable?

If UBC, SFU or U.VIC back in Canada hired teachers who only held undergraduate degrees, and unpublished to boot, they'd probably get sued!

Gordon's school is obviously not concerned with offering the best to it's students - much like USQ.

I would hardly thank Gordon in Shikoku as being the 'voice of reason' on this board.

Do a google.com search for Australian universities.

Macqaurie is one of the best in terms of English language teaching and research and, as mentioned many times before, USQ is the worst.

[Gordon]

[Rice Paddy Daddy]

What a stinging defense, Gordon.

So what kind of university hires a B.A. holder to teach their students?

A reputable school?

You must be getting professor's pay also, eh?

[Gordon]

[Rice Paddy Daddy]

Gordon,

Good luck with your USQ courses - You must be taking LIN 5000 right now?

LIN 8005?

[merlin]

A sure sign of a weak mind presenting a weak case is when one side resorts to attacking the man, not the issue under discussion.

Once again Gordon, USQ MA student, comes out ahead. We see the critics of innovation have nothing of interest to say besides their opinions twisted by an unstable emotional state.

[Rice Paddy Daddy]

Merlin,

You must be a USQ student then also - LOL!!

[merlin]

Yes, indeed, Rice Paddy Daddy.
But you see, I'm not the kind of person who sits around and waits for my degree from a well-known university to secure me a job for the rest of my life.

The piece of paper is nothing.

The academic work I do with USQ is cutting edge. It is the ultimate social constructivist learning environment. The degree to which one learns is proportional to the degree of effort one puts in. Moreover its a collective and the degree to which the collective conciousness is able to progress towards the educational outcomes is also dependent on the degree to which one is able to participate in the collective learning.

Yes, I get classmates who expect the professor to shovel knowledge into their brain and are dissatisfied when they get poor marks. This will always be the case. They (like you) just completely miss the point of graduate level education.