Job Discussion Forums

[dragnsp1]

Can a person come to China and go to school, take about ten to twelve classes per week, and be granted a visa?

Or, would it be plausible for an individual to work approximately ten hours in the classroom teaching and receive the benefits of some reimbursement for airfare, accommodations, etc?

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Basically I want to go to school but I don't want to take thirty classes a week. Or I would like to get a job for ten to twelve hours a week teaching, and the rest of the time I would have for studying at a smaller language school, whether legal or not.

Please, help!!!!

D

[hubei_canuk]

It's very easy.
You'd probably do private teaching. It'd take a while to build the connections. I know its done in all kinds of ways, but each one i heard about was some kind of special condition. Like a friend who worked for a school on some special arrangement. Hie priority was learning Chinese so he didn't do a reguar schedule or contract. It was a very loose arrangement. I guess it also depends on the local authorities.
That's why i think you just have to come any make friends somewhere.
...
That one friend i am thinking about... his stint ended when another foreigner commited suicide in the same city. The police rolled in on all the schools just asking general questions because they didn't know why the guy killed himself.
In the process they found out about my friend, but no big deal... they just asked him to leave.
.........................
About visas.
If you have had at least one tourist visa trip to china, you can get a 6 month multiple entry business visa in HK for about 500 HK dollars. If you go to China consulate you will have all kinds of trouble ,.. maybe impossible If you go to a travel agency, no trouble at all. There are at least 2 travel agencies in HK that can do it. One was called "Japan Travel."
My information is 2 years out of date though.
...
I spent 8 months touring China just for fun without knowing this. I had incredible trouble with renewals in different cities in China.
I was really chagrined to find out how i missed out on the "no trouble" visa in Hong Kong.

[Freaky Deaky]

Hubei Canuk is spot on. Don't even try to get your visa from the Chinese embassy. Go to an agency - there's one next to the embassy called Sunrise International Travel Co, 26 Harbour Rd. They're currently charging $560 HK for a multiple entry business visa - cheaper than the embassy. When you get to your destination in China find the bars where teachers hang out, you'll get connected very quickly this way. Good luck.

[gerard]

You answered your own question man... Find an easy job and get a visa. I work 12 hours a week and when they went (a Normal Univesirty) I had 2 classes a week. Get with it man , pull yourself together take a deep breath etc. etc. etc. Chill bro...

[arioch36]

Of course, you have to have a visa before coming to China...so what kind of visa are you really talking about.

I'm not sure if you are asking what you can do legally, or whether you are saying that you don't care less about the laws of China, you just want to know what you can get away with. If you have no respect for the country you are in, why come? If you get robbed, or something, I hope you won't be so hypocritical as to complain that someone broke the law

You will find people at Dave's who will condemn China's lack of morals, but encourage others to cheat and justify their own cheating. Some area are gray, some aren't.

What kind of visa are you talking about. Just like America, you can only work here legally on a work (z) visa. Just like America, students are not allowed to work, but people usually won't get upset if you work a few extra hours.

If you had any intention of doing things legally , the best way is find a job teaching for 12 hours IMHO. This is all you need. Agree to work for the minimum, 2,200. This will be enough to pay for living expenses, presuming you have a little money of your own to have fun with. Have the school give or get you classes in Chinese, as many as you want. Once you have a little Chinese, go talk to the local people (depending on where you live) Go to a local english corner...great place for a beginner to learn Chinese Talk to your students

I have no sympathy right now for illegals in China...it is not a wise time to be illegal. I don't agree with the way China is handling SARS, but they didn't ask me. SOme drastic things are happening. A fine for spitting, with all due serious, is even more drastic then there edict that they will execute anyone who intentionally spreads SARS. ID's are being checked more, even between towns. People are tense, worried. Many livliehoods have been ruined. Politicians have fallen in disgrace. The government is worried. Situation normal, not normal. Sloppy procedures are being accepted less and less, for good and bad.

China is usually an easy place to be illegal in. With a little thought it is also very easy to be legal.

[Roger]

I wholeheartedly support Chris' arguments! The poster asked a similar question in a different thread and was not satisfied with the same answers he harvested there. Why ask in such roundabout ways? Why not go up to a CHinese embassy and ask about university courses for foreign nationals? Or teaching in China? He obviously wants the best of two worlds without obeying the rules of any one society!
As for multiple-entry visas, they are so normal and cheap to obtain in HK - multiple-entry tourist visas, multiple-entry business visas, there is no need to to come to the mainland first and go back to buy one of those.
BUt they do not entitle him to study or work. Although he will perhaps find an university that is willing to take his money for a course. They all want some extra income. But they won't be able to help him obtain any residence permit legally.
But then again, if the hook does not work, they try the crook.

[hubei_canuk]

[Roger]

Nonsense, hubei-whatsyourname!

Anyone, I repeat: ANYONE, can buy a multiple-entry visa in HK. Just go to a travel agent - PHOENIX or Japan Travel Service, bring along a name-card and a passport-size picture, and you get your visa within twelve hours from the Shenzhen PSB via the agent. If Hubei-canuk cannot get it this way, that's his problem, not mine. I got it the first time with no hassles involved. Besides, who needs a business visa? There is no legal difference between it and a tourist visa. Anybody can get six month, multiple-entry tourist visas!

Yes, in this respect hubei-canuk is right: we are all struggling to stay legal. The problem, as I see it, is not so much that Chinese want to cheat at all costs. Rather, they often are clueless themselves, not knowing which ropes to pull. Typically, the school principal entertains a bigwig from the Education Department of his town, thinking he can rely on that person's influence and power. BUt thehead of the Ed Dep. has no clout over the PSB, and he may not even know that the school needs a permit from the PSB to hire expats.
The PSB don't know WHO has to sponsor you; they will approlve any visa application so long as the applicant has a sponsor and has undergone the medical exam to prove he or she is HIV-free. Sometimes a car repair garage sponsors an English teacher - and loans him to a training centre who do not know how to do it themselves (this has happened in my area recently).

But when it comes to residency, the law is more straitforward. Right now, it is not advisable to try your luck as an undocumented alien looking for rented accommodation! The neighbourhood committees are being ressuscitated. Old ladies and tottering old men are on the constant lookout for strangers who might be carriers of SARS. Woe betide you in the wrong place!

[dragnsp1]

Seems I have not been formulating my questions well. And you guys appear to be coming from the "I've been there done that," place, where as I have not. ? But thanks very much for your efforts to help me.

"He obviously wants the best of two worlds without obeying the rules of any one society!"

As for this comment, you don't know. I just want information on what I can do and how to go about. Nothing more.

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Here is my situation. I've already been living in China for the last year and can speak Chinese at a comfortable beginner level. Come this summer I'll travel back to my home country for a visit. Upon the new 2003 fall term, I'll make my way back to China and most likely settle in Xiamen.

The thing is that I've had a full-time, 22 class per week position here in Qingdao, one in which I needed to stay at the school all day long, from 8:30am to 3:30 in the afternoon. My contract has been a good one, for the most part, so I get airfare back home and summer pay. The thing is I haven't had to deal with all the visa stuff since my school changed my tourist visa to a residency visa when I arrived. I therefore know very little about the ins-and-outs of it all. Essentially my current schedule is not conducive to what I originally had planned -- to be able to have some substantial time for study, preferably in a classroom.

I would like to work and study legally, yes. What options do I have? What avenues can I take?
Can you make things a bit simpler for me?
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For example:

1. If I contract with a school for 10-12 hours a week, would that constitute a residency visa, something the school would in turn take care of, and could I also find an apartment that way without problems while also going to school?

2. On the other hand, if I contact a language school and go through them, what would they be able to supply me with in terms of a visa, and would I be able to work, legally, on top of it? (business visa/residency visa, etc)

3. Additionally, if I come here on a tourist visa in late August, can I get it switched to a business visa by myself in HK like some of you have suggested? Regarding work and study, what does such a visa allow me to do or not do?
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Thanks very much. This type of info in not spelled out for those who have not been down the road before. With this I can have a much clearer understanding of what I'm capable of and how to accomplish it.

Thank!

D

[hubei_canuk]

[arioch36]

My post wasn't to denigrate you. I said plainly i don't know where you are coming from. I gave my best advice how to study Chinse and gain fluency, while teaching here legally. Anything I wrote was confusing, just ask me to clarify.

Mr Suna (Do you know how hard it is to write that backward all the time)

no..I'm sorry, it would not be the christian thing to say wha that sound was..sorry. It left so many good openings

[Roger]

To hubei_canuk,

an interesting angle - a multiple-entry business visa for people who have already been to China. Maybe this applied years ago, maybe it still - officially - applies, but it may also be ignored by the powers-that-be sometimes.
The travel agent that sells business visas with no further hassles except to ask you to give him a picture and the fee, namely 700 HK$, is PHOENIX TRAVEL, in Kowloon; 96 Nathan Rd., 7th floor. Contact one Ben WONG there. You get your passport back by 6 p.m., provided you handed it in BEFORE 11 a.m.
The Japan Travel Agency handles visa requests too. They sell tourist visas at a reasonable price (I think currently it is 400 HK4 for 6 months, multiple entries).
Yes, they get the visa from the Shenzhen PSB - but you CAN'T get it there! Don't know why. It may be a business relationship reserved for travel agents.

I also have come across agencies that convert your visa to a visa of another category. If I look them up, I might find them again, but at the moment they have slipped my memory. I do not know what good they be of, knowing that they are a business, not a legal institution, and they too have to exercise clout over some PSB. Either they have bought that clout, or else, they can't oblige. In the end, you have to pay for a service that you could get a lot cheaper if done legally by yourself.

[Freaky Deaky]

I know tons of people in Shanghai with business visas. None of them seem the slightest bit worried about this. Teachers are leaving in droves and if/when the situation reverts to normal there will be very few teachers around. What will happen? Will the schools just close down? Or will they use their connections to make sure the illegal teachers are left alone? China desperately needs English teachers and most of these are working illegally. If the Chinese government starts forcing the law the country will have about 100 legal teachers left. Does the Chinese government really want that? Or do they want the people to learn English whether from a legal teacher or not?

[Roger]

To dragnsp1

The PSB could enlighten you as to what visas are available to you, but in Shenzhen they used to have a poster listing all of them, but I do not know where you can check out visa options or wehther your PSB have such a notice board. Here is the gist of it:
- What you call "residency" visa comes in basically two forms:
a) The work visa, prefixed with a 'Z' and usually given to any
expat working here legally;
- b) residency visas for overseas Chinese. They get preferential treatment
on the housing market. They can buy property outside the ghettoes
reserved for other expats. Pin no hope on obtaining such a visa!
Even if you marry a local, your status as a foreign national remains as
does your need to apply for a new work visa every year! With the
exception, perhaps, of Shanghai: Here, I heard, some people can now
qualify for a so-called 'greencard' which exempts them from the need
to secure themselves a new visa every year. THis 'greencard' is valid for
several years, but it still is in the trial period!
- Business visas: They are issued by consulates, but sometimes they
can be obtained from the PSB if you have a sponsor. A legal sponsor
must be a Chinese danwei that officially does business with you. The bu-
siness visa DOES NOT allow you to rent accommodation or to seek
employment. You can only stay at designated expat housing places
such as hotels and certain estates (serviced apartments, for instance).
If you spend 183 days in CHina, or more, you are liable to pay
tax on your business profits! This is currently not uniformly being
implemented, but foreign businesspeople are known to have had
pay tax here! If you declare your "salary" as taxable income,
you will have to explain why you were allowed to work in contra-
vention of the law - not your boss.
- A tourist visa is much the same as a business visa, except that it is
marked with a 'L'. Like a business person, you cannot work or rent
premises.

Other restrictions: You cannot convert your salary into foreign currency at a BOC branch legally!

So, you can only hope to be hired by a public college or university which offers you free Mandarin lessons on top of your perks and your salary for a workload not exceeding 16 hours a week.
That is the best solution for your dilemma! Ooops, is it a dilemma?