Job Discussion Forums

[Canasian]

Rapping is something you do, Hip-hop is something you live.

-- KRS One

Hip-hop is a culture. Here is a good explanation of it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hip_Hop

Aramas's opinion is an example of an ignorant opinion on hip hop - when people don't like something (esp. music, since it's so personal/cultural), most people will denounce it without thinking/knowing more about it. Kinda like when Rock and Roll first came out and Elvis started copying black artist and thrusting his hips, most parents who were out of touch, or didn't like the music, or whatever, denounced Rock and Roll to be "evil", terrible.

I just watched the movie "Ray", the biopic about Ray Charles and it's funny to listen to his music now and think that they once reacted so negatively to his music. Calling is blasphemous, and immoral....etc. Much like Aramas's "hip hop is truly pathetic, embarrassingly egomaniacal drivel". Although I do agree with this statement with some artists, especially since the mainstream marketing/sterotype furthers this perception and artist capitalize off it. Aramas's statement thus clearly reveals that he has only watched/listened to MTV too much or the local radio station. There are many artist in hip-hop today and in the past that are great, and I would think no one, including Amarmas, could said about hip hop what he just said.

As a person who listens everything (oldies - beatles, the usualy suspects, jazz - just getting into it, rock, rap - know most of it, r&b - like marvin gaye and al green,... etc). I think it's good that you're interested in what hip hop is about, since it's very much mainstream now and effects many cultures. Maybe not all cultures in non-north american societies, but definitely in some european/asian/latin countries. It definitely is the dominant music and culture in America, but there are lots of shades and aspects to it. Too many people dont realize that, and assume P.Diddy is the king of rap/hip hop (by most true hip hop heads estimation, that statement is as far off as it gets).

If you want to ask me a question, or me to recommed some tracks/albums for you, give me a pm.

[Seth]

all of this reminds me of white attitudes when folks like louis armstrong were making history with their music. while i agree that most hip hop is stupid and inane, that's like comparing creed and led zepplin since they're both rock music. groups like de la soul or arrested development are prime examples of how great hip hop can be. 50 cent and puff daddy (or whatever his name is now) are example of how bad it can be. and how can you write off r&b?

white folk in the 30's thought jazz was 'afro' music and louis armstrong was a 'reefer addict' as well as his negro band. such sexual and jerking dancing motions surely came from the devil. it's corrupting the moral, intelligent white youth who appreciate REAL music.

don't even start on american corporate pop, britain is the country that started it all with the spice girls. does a-1 ring a bell? that's a boy band that never made it in america, as even their music was incredible drivel. or it could be because A1 is a brand of steak sauce (brown sauce in the UK). i recall watching the BBC and a certain spice girl was hosting a music show that featured the latest in rehashed pop garbage, even saying 'go out and buy this album right now!'

once again, london DJs are mostly w*nkers.

[dyak]

My students (Pre-ints) once wanted to study some hip-hop 'lyrics'... has anyone ever delved into hip-hop's 'flexible' use of grammar in the classroom?

[given2fly]

xxx

[Aramas]

Trance is essentially electronic Euro-nightclub music. It's characterised by (mostly) strong dance beats, 'uplifting' hymn-like riffs and an absence of lyrics - or at least 'meaningful' or even intelligible ones. A set will usually include one or two tracks with girly vocals, but most tracks are 'instrumental'. They tend to be remixes of existing tracks, or even remixes of remixes. A set will usually start out fairly mellow, work up to a peak, hold it for a while and then taper down again - rather like a good drug. Funny that.

It includes a number of sub-genres, and can vary from Enigma's ambient style, through Ferry Corsten's pumping rock-like beats, DJ Tiesto's classical pretensions, Sasha's euphoric radiance, Goa trance's weirdness to Delerium's mainstream girly pop/dance (and much more, of course).

I doubt that anyone could find Enigma or Delerium 'weird' or 'offensive'.

Mainstream vocal trance tracks worth a listen might include Delerium's 'Silence' (preferably the Paul Oakenfold remix, sometimes called 'Silent Angel'), 'Truly' (Infusion or Signum Club Mix), Paul Oakenfold's 'Southern Sun (DJ Tiesto remix)', Ferry Corsten's 'Rock Your Body Rock', Paul Van Dyk's 'Nothing But You (PVD Club Mix)', Kosheen's 'All In My Head (Substance and Decoder Mix)' (actually Drum & Bass, but categorising isn't all that helpful).

Some interesting 'instrumental' tracks might include GTR's 'Mistral (Original Mix)', Ferry Corsten's 'Punk (Kid Vicious remix)', 'Vimana' (with DJ Tiesto), Cygnus X's 'Positron' (any mix), anything except the first two tracks on Sasha's 'Airdrawndagger' album, and well, if you've read this far you can find your own way.

A better picture can probably be had by (legally) downloading a set - usually an hour or two long. Stick with the ones that are labelled '<insert artist> Live @ <insert nightclub>', preferably with a date. Sasha's sets are probably the most palatable for the neophyte.

Another peculiarity of trance that I'm unable to account for is an almost total absence of US participation. John Creamer and Stephane K in NY have done a few decent remixes, but none of them have managed to stay in my playlist for long. I didn't actually notice until a couple of weeks ago when I was filling in the blanks in my mp3 tags and had to do some research. I have over a hundred hours of trance on my iBook, and there's not only not one single US track, but as far as I can tell there's not even one US singer on any track in my entire collection! Bizzarre! I don't know if I deleted them all because they sucked, or if there just aren't any!

Last week I downloaded a set labelled 'Ferry Corsten Live' that turned out be some strange US 'trance' festival thing. It sounded like they turned up their RadioShack karaoke machine to 11, punched the 'trance' button and proceeded to recite some inane limerick regarding how tough/cool/sexy they are - over and over until the music stopped. Then someone else would do the same thing! For hours! weird! I hope that wasn't 'American Trance'.

[Seth]

you can keep your trance, even though a i love 'karma' by delerium...not exactly trance, though, nor is enigma. i also like the future sound of london and howie b. what are some american trance outfits, anyway? and what does trance have to do with hip hop?

[Aramas]

[Seth]

[dmb]

[Canasian]

You don't have to apologize for Eminem, Seth. He's not an example of the "bad" side of hip hop, in my opinion. You're right on with 50 Cent and P. Diddy though, IMO. It's funny when people say that Eminem's music "will ruin your head" or "is a bad influence"....etc. Clearly, lots of his content is meant for mature audiences, and too many younger kids are listening to his stuff. However, the guy is supremely talented and is not a pure product of the soulless marketing scheme that the music industry mostly seems to be nowadays. If people bothered to listen to the lyrics, they would hear many sides of Eminem. He definitely has an aggressive side that borders on distrubing when he raps, but there also a deeper Eminem that is introspective..... etc.

I agree on De La Soul, though. A very good example of how hip hop can be very good. There are countless other examples, but too often the mainsteam media outlets choose the style over substance. Because of this, only a fraction of mainstream hip hop is "good". Unfortunately, these days it seems that the fraction of "good" music (in all kinds of music, not just rap IMO) in the mainstream is getting smaller and smaller.

[dmb]

Who cares if the best hip hop doesn't become mainstream? as long as I get to here it I don't care if it is popular or not.

[benno]

[Ben H Nevis Jnr.]

I can scarcely believe some of the drivel I've had the misfortune to read on this thread. I should probably just up and leave now before it gets nasty and personal, but some part of me demands I should at least try to answer the original poster, seeing as I have plenty drivel of my own to spout forth on the subject.

Hip-hop. Fast establishing itself as something of a worldwide vehicle of expression for disenfrachised (mainly) male (mainly) urban youth. If it glorifies thuggish, mysogenistic, materialistic and morally void values then it does so because that is the society it mirrors and is fed by. Don't shoot (if you pardon the pun) the messenger.

Trance. Its simple feel-good nature has been a double-edged sword. Initial recordings may have provoked interest within the overall dance music community and its accessibility may have drawn it a large following, but it has proved far too easy to duplicate. Whereas techno and house continue to evolve, trance is still partying like it's 1997. As someone mentioned, this may be because most of its enthusiasts are still too pilled up to notice and/or care that its 2004 and the new records being churned out are stale, formulaic and bland. The soundtrack to a Volvo driver's midlife crisis. A cultural cul-de-sac. The runt of the acid house litter.

It's not just music, it's a way of life.....

Many people will tell you this about their chosen form of music. Don't believe the hype ! They're merely hiding behind the music to excuse those old tribal mentalities that seem to plague the human soul from time to time. It would of course be expected, in keeping with most pseudo-fascist social structures, that the most visible, if not the most talented, representatives of their scene were also the ones that demanded absolute loyalty and brotherhood from their adherents/subjects, while simultaneously pursing an individualist agenda. If you are prepared to delve beneath the corporate tie-ins and the media circuses and explore your local back record shop you will be pleasantly surprised to find plenty hip-hop acts out there, singing in many different accents, who neatly sidestep the bulls hit and the stereotypes to draw their influences from a wide range of sources - soul, house, techno, rawk, etc etc. Believing P.Diddy to be a representitive of Hip-Hop as a whole is akin to believing George Dubya when he claims to act on behalf of democracy as a whole.

But anyway, too many people read too much into this whole genre business - "electrosmeg is the new cun tronica". I consider it a noose around my neck. There's only good music and bad music. Period.

[Canasian]

[Aramas]

Of course a certain amount of posing and w*nking is inevitable in any 'club scene' - youth has a tendency to run with the herd. UK DJ's might well be w*nkers, but at least they have the decency to keep their mouths shut and make music.

The 'partying like it's 1997' comment made me laugh I don't care if we party like it's 1997 BC. Are people so addicted to fashion that even their music has to have a 'new line' every spring and autumn? Fashion is merely commercialised conformity with regular cycles of obsolescence, and is worth a thread in itself.

The stuff at the top of the thread about Elvis and Ray Charles made me laugh even harder. They certainly get this week's prize for missing the point. Ooooh yeah, hip hop is the devils music! It will make your palms grow hair! lol! Please!

If I want to stimulate my mind with incisive commentary on the human condition I'll read Blake, Nietzche, Schopenhauer, Satre etc. I certainly don't give a toss about what some entertainer has to say about anything. Imo they should just stfu and entertain. No doubt Mozart, Bach, Handel, etc. could have provided us with a fascinating commentary on contemporary Germanic culture, but fortunately they kept their mouths shut and did what they do best - make music. If the hip hoppies could do the same then I would listen, but while ever they continue to talk over their music I'll just leave the room, thanks