Job Discussion Forums

Eleckid · Joined: 03 Jun 2004 Posts: 102 Location: Aichi, Japan

I had kids point at me saying "gaijin da!", doesn't bother me at all. As long as they're not saying it to insult a foreigner (in a dif tone), then it's ok. I still say "Jap" to my Japanese friends & they also say "Jap" to refer to themselves or the language. It's only for abbrev. & there's absolutely no insulting thoughts anywhere, so it's ok. I even refer myself as gaijin in front of other Japanese ppl, none of us care or took it in any way of insult.

Some ppl are just too sensitive about this "gaijin" & "Jap" thing. I mean like they take it too seriously. Honestly, I never knew that it's something to insult someone until I joined this forum, when someone biatched at me about me refering to some WWII????

Perhaps as each generation, these terms are not taken as an insult too much, as long as it's in the right tone. Myself, & all my Japanese friends here, are all in our early 20's. At the end, discriminations & racism are everywhere, no matter where we live.

Oh yeah, I think it's better to be referred as gaijin than the term "alien" (in English). My boss was like "You need to get your alien card." I was like, "Hey, it's foreigner, not alien. I'm not an alien!" she just laughs & say it's the same thing. Then the head teacher (he's black) said, "If you're not a Japanese, you're an alien. Doesn't matter where you're from."

It's sorta like the same thing in other countries, right? Like sometimes, instead of saying just "Canadian", we go "Japanese-Canadian" or "Chinese-Canadian", etc. Even if that person was born & raised in Canada. But we don't hear "British-Canadian" or "Dutch-Canadian" or "German-Canadian". Those are automatically referred as "Canadians" (cuz of skin colour?). I don't know...that ticks me off sometimes (& that I'm being called an "alien" in English by Japanese ppl).

king kakipi · Joined: 16 Feb 2004 Posts: 353 Location: Australia

bshabu · Joined: 03 Apr 2003 Posts: 200 Location: Kumagaya

I dont think the abbreviations are a big deal. Japan abbreviates a lot of things.

Kansaikokusaikukou= kan-ku

Makudonarudo= maku(Tokyo) makudo(Osaka)

Kentucky Fried Chicken= Kentaki

I even saw this on way to work.

????????????= seco-han

Any one know what that means. spoiler at the bottom.

So, I don't think that shortening Gaikoujin to Gaijin is MORE or LESS insulting.

answer:
second hand

canuck · Joined: 11 May 2003 Posts: 1921 Location: Japan

Nagoyaguy · Joined: 15 May 2003 Posts: 425 Location: Aichi, Japan

Short forms are not necessarily insulting, it depends on the short form. It also depends on the person being referred to. The key is that the person in the receiving end is the one to decide whether a term is derogatory, NOT the person saying it. For example;

British: Brit
Pakistani: Paki
Japanese: Jap
Canadian: Canuck

Even these terms refer to what people ARE. Gaijin refers to what people are NOT ie not Japanese. See the difference?

As for alien or gaikokujin, both are legal terms and not generally used in daily conversation.

But in reality, Japanese people know that gaijin means something OTHER than a short form of gaikokujin. It shows up in how they use it. I worked in a hotel in Toronto, and we had many Japanese guests. They were always agog because there were so many gaijin around. I told a tour leader that it was a funny thing to hear, because in Canada THEY were the gaijin. The tour leader was downright offended; "eeeh? No, we are Japanese, not gaijin!!". So obviously the term had more than the simple abbreviated meaning.

Watch the TV news in Japan. Do they ever use the term "gaijin"? No. Why not, if it is a standard accepted abbreviation?

Bottom line, its ignorant. I think that in Japanese, language selection is important. To me, gaijin is a kind of humble word. I can use it about myself, perhaps my close friends can, but others should be careful. There are many cases in Japanese where there are two or three words to describe the same person, depending on whether you want to show respect or status. For example;

okaa-san, haha, ofukuro
otoo-san, chichi, oyaji
oku-san, kanai, waifu, gusai

Word selection is important because it shows how you see the person you are talking to. If you know my name, use it. If you know my nationality, use it. If I am a customer, call me okyaku-san. If you dont know my name, my nationality, or I am not a customer, call me sumimasen or oji-san.

The world is not a binary.

Lynn · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 696 Location: in between

Lynn · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 696 Location: in between

Nismo · Joined: 27 Jul 2004 Posts: 520

I've also noticed that native residents of Japan, in general, don't understand the idea behind an American of Japanese descent, or a Canadian of Japanese descent. I've often heard, "But you are Japanese." My Japanese-American friends were struggling to come up with more than just, "but I was born in America," because the native Japanese still couldn't wrap their heads around the idea. I found the best response is, "But if they tried to live in Japan your government would imprison them based on a lack of citizenship."

king kakipi · Joined: 16 Feb 2004 Posts: 353 Location: Australia

It certainly annoys me that anyone who is not Japanese (ie the majority of the world Razz

) can be lumped together as 'gaijin'. IMO it displays a cultural insensitivity which is partly due to a lack of multiculturalism,and appropriate education, in this country.

I have a friend who is Scottish and goes to great pains to point out that he is 'Skotterandojin' not 'Igirusujin' and that there are four countries that make up the UK. The Japanese word for both 'British' and 'English' is 'Igirusujin' even though they don't mean the same thing and are not interchangeable. He says that the Japanese he speaks to just can't get their head around that concept!

I guess lumping everyone together as 'gaijin' is a convenient way of just saying 'you are not one of us'..............

As for abbr. some have negative, and some positive, connotations although this can, of course, also depend on the person who is being talked about.

'Scots, Aussies, Brits', seem OK to me, but

'Japs, Pakis, Chinks, POMs', seem unacceptable to me.

I don't make a big thing of the 'gaijin' thing with the J. I encounter, but, if I am in the conversation, I do try and get them to change 'gaijin' to my name, or my nationality.

GambateBingBangBOOM · Joined: 04 Nov 2003 Posts: 2021 Location: Japan

JimDunlop2 · Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Posts: 2286 Location: Japan

If you really want to mess with a nihon-jin's brain (and this was also discussed way back in another thread(s)....) is to tell them that even their own Imperial Household and the Emperor himself is part Korean. Even when you AREN'T dealing with some xenophobic redneck, they won't believe a word you say, even though this assertion came right out of the horse's mouth in a speech made by Emperor Akihito.

Emperor Akihito, during his 68th birthday speech in 2001, announced feeling "a certain kinship with Korea" and described the story of the mother of Emperor Kammu who was of the line of King Muryong of Paekche. Kammu, reigned Japan from 781 to 806 AD, while Muryong ruled the Paekche Kingdom in Korea from 501 to 523 AD.

Then, if you want to add insult to injury and make Japanese blood boil you can also mention that "sakura" cherry blossoms actually come from Korea, specifically, Jeju Island.

"Sukiyaki" also comes from Korea. It isn't native to Japan as some people may believe.

(The above facts are courtesy of Korea Times writer Kim Byong Kuk).

I'm sure there arey many other similar cases too.... Those are just the ones I can think of right now.

Zzonkmiles · Joined: 05 Apr 2003 Posts: 309

As gaijin/gaikokujin, you will never be fully accepted by Japanese society. You are not Japanese, you will never be Japanese, and you will always be seen as different from Japanese (which implies being lower than Japanese).

The gaijin/gaikokujin thing doesn't bother me so much. Personally, "gaijin" is easier for me to say because it's shorter. So surely some Japanese say "gaijin" for the same reason. Of course, some may mean it in a derogatory way. There's no way to ever know. But even if they did comply and call you "gaikokujin," that doesn't make things any better if their feelings don't match their words.

Really, you can live in this country for years and years and years. And yeah, you may make some close Japanese friends and think you're bonding. But on some level deep down, you are not Japanese to them, and this is a primary factor that determines how they treat you and how they think about you.

You can't change every Japanese's mind on this subject. It's impossible. Sometimes being the "stupid gaijin" is the easiest way to live here. The people who NEED to know (such as your J-friends, J-in laws, or J-coworkers) know better.

Nagoyaguy · Joined: 15 May 2003 Posts: 425 Location: Aichi, Japan

My point is this- I cant think of any occasion at all when it is necessary to refer to me, or call me, gaijin OR gaikokujin. In all circumstances, there are other words to use that are both more accurate and more polite.

I often here it said by some Japanese , "what else should we call you? We dont know your name?" I answer that they should call me what they would call a Japanese person in the same situation. Would you say "hey nihon-jin?".