Job Discussion Forums

kev7161 · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 5880 Location: Suzhou, China

(Oops! I posted the following in the wrong forum - - so here it is again with the two comments that had been to date in response)

So, I've read a few comments along the lines of "If you don't like the way your country (in light of the recent US presidential elections and the political situation), then get out!" "Love it or leave it!" . . . and so on. Let me tell you about a situation in my hometown that is akin to this and then let me know what you think (sorry for the lengthiness):

We have a Baptist "reverend" named Fred Phelps. Maybe some of you have heard of him in the national news stories. I hail from Topeka, Kansas. It seems Phelps and his followers are against gay people. Not just - - - "Gay people? As long as they stay away from me, then I can deal with it". No, his church, the Westboro Baptist Church, paints these huge, multi-colored signs with such bon mots as "F A G S deserve to rot in h e l l" "My God is a vengeful god - - he condemns gays to burn!" He always has some old testament scripture on the signs that you can refer to that will support his message. He also has lovely graphics that just border on obscenity, but not quite over that line.

He and his clan stand on prominent street corners during lunch hour and evening rush hour to make sure that a lot of people get his message. He protests at community events such as theater performances, city council meetings, election areas, funerals (people who have died of AIDS are his favorite), and Sunday morning church services of churches that have publicly opposed his message. Had enough yet? He hasn't.

He pickets the local newspaper (F A G rag) as they run editorials and letters-to-the-editor of those opposed to his message. He pickets the local University as they have a gay-lesbian organization on campus. He mocks any public service person (the mayor, the governor, city council members) that say anything against him. He anonymously faxes really, really wicked, mean-spirited letters to offices of people who have spoken out about him. When he finds out a gay person or lesbian works in a restaurant or grocery store or something, he pickets that business.

He does this all very openly and hatefully and, by the way, legally (he has a daughter who is a lawyer). They have small children out there carrying the signs - - I'm talking 8 or 9 year olds. They picket in the extreme heat of the summer to the extreme coldness of Kansas winters. You have to "admire" his tenacity (not!).

Now, granted, there is a vocal majority AGAINST Phelps and his ilk, but there are many out there that support his "right" to freedom of speech and even support his statements.

So, should the people that oppose Phelps . . . leave Topeka? Leave the state? Should they just ignore him and hope that someday he will go away? (he's been there doing this for more than 10 years now). Should they try and find some sort of legal recourse and get this idiot off the streets and back into his church where he belongs (it's been tried several times, to no avail)? Should someone take a gun and shoot him or run him over with their car? (he wears a bulletproof vest and they have their camcorders with them at all times . . . just in case). By the way, Phelps doesn't limit his crusade to only Topeka. He has traveled all over the country protesting gay pride parades, funerals (like Matthew Shepard's), and other gay-related events - - yes even Washington D.C.

Now, maybe there are some reading this that support what he is doing and maybe you'll even have the guts to say so here. But I'll just bet that most of you are a little repulsed by this as am I. So, I plan on moving back to Topeka next summer as there are so many more positives there that sort of balance this jerk. But, should I? Gosh, I oppose our current president and I've said so. I and others have been told if you don't like it, get out. Don't let the door hit you, blah, blah, blah. Is that your advice for this situation and any situation that I and others may oppose? Ignore it and it will eventually go away, right? (by the way, I've gotten my own anonymous letter after I wrote a scathing anti-Phelps letter to the editor)

Now, am I comparing Phelps to Bush? Well, yes and no. I'm sure that Bush has some altruistic moments and some things he does are probably for the good of the country. (okay, no I don't. I think he is the lamest president that I can remember!) But, from what I read here, what Phelps is doing is legal according to the constitution, so I should just abandon my friends and family in Topeka . . . at least till Phelps goes away or dies, right? One thing that it has done is made citizens of Topeka more tolerant and supportive of people of different lifestyles, so silver-lining and all.

Okay, you get the point. I've been rather long-winded and I'm waiting to be put in my place. But I thought it was worth a debate. Or I could be wrong.

Old Dog said:

ChinaEFLteacher · Joined: 08 Sep 2004 Posts: 104 Location: China

one thing vocal whackos do is make people oppose their position, so maybe that nut is actually helping the cause of accepting people despite their sexual preferance. he could be doing your town a favor by uniting public opinion against him and his ideas and becoming more tolerant, as you suggested. now, if most of your town agreed with him, maybe it wouldn't be a happy place to be, but most places have their share of psychopaths so i guess tolerance is the best remedy.

juststeven · Joined: 18 Aug 2004 Posts: 117

"I may not agree with a word you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
-some old dead French guy - you know! Very Happy

justcolleen · Joined: 07 Jan 2004 Posts: 654 Location: Egypt, baby!

I have looked the good Reverend in the eye, and I can tell you I believe he is evil.

At my son's mid-western high school, a gay student was set to receive a rather prestigious award at graduation last spring. The Reverend and his whole crew showed up to voice their opinion about the student's sexuality. And that was only one time he came to town.

He's something.

Colleen

moonraven · Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 3094

Because there is no "state of law" in the US since the "Patriot Act" abrogated the US Constitution, the Bully on the Corner calls the shots.

That bully may be named Bush, or he may have another, more local name. It doesn't matter what he is called; in his eyes YOU have no rights whatsoever unless you pay him tribute. He speaks his fractured languages through the keyboards of many on this forum who wish they were he, but are such miserable pipsqueaks that were they visible to us they would be laughed off the screen.

I am laughing anyway. What else can one do, when someone thinks his piddling, probably even uncounted vote, entitles him to push other folks around. This is democracy??????????????????????????????????????????

blue jay · Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:26 pm Post subject:

Speaking of the US Patriot Act this is what people in BC are worried about: (BC=British Columbia, Canada)

The BC goverment will be outsourcing MSP payments and
billings (MSP=Medical Services Plan)

From the Office of the Information and Privacy
Commissioner the following:

Press Release/Report Summary:
http://www.oipcbc.org/sector_public/usa_patriot_act/patriot_act.htm

the full report:
http://www.oipcbc.org/sector_public/usa_patriot_act/pdfs/report/privacy-final.pdf

News release:
http://www.canada.com/national/story.html?id=0c588085-8881-4770-a077-0c217dc608c3

Editorial:
http://www.bcpolitics.ca/left_mspsell.htm

blue jay

merlin · Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:01 am Post subject:

The situations if not the people are Apples and Oranges, definitely.
A little less than half of all registered voters didn't vote for this nut in Topeka. Now if he won an election for mayor (or even lost with 49.9% of the vote) you might consider not living there.

On the other hand, Topeka is in the US and I'm sure somewhere close to 50% of registered voters in Topeka voted for Bush. If you are a Bush hater this is the bigger problem, I feel.

British · Joined: 30 Oct 2004 Posts: 133 Location: China

If I was an AMERICAN I would leave my country right now.

Bush is just a war lord not a peace keeper, Twisted Evil

What country is next when the oil runs out?

kev7161 · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 5880 Location: Suzhou, China

British · Joined: 30 Oct 2004 Posts: 133 Location: China

kev7161
------------
I can't get rid of the president. = yes you can use the CIA just like J.F.K

I guess I'll have to live with him as well = just move.

I'm certainly not going to sit quietly for the next four years. = I don't blame you.

Bye

texastmblwd69 · Joined: 25 Sep 2004 Posts: 91 Location: Seoul, South Korea

7969 · Joined: 26 Mar 2003 Posts: 5782 Location: Coastal Guangdong

well, aren't the right to free speech and assembly part and parcel of the "god-given" rights in the USA? and you did mention that the "reverend" is doing things legally. all i can say is:

a. ignore this man and what he says; and/or
b. organize a group to counter what he stands for.

in the end, i'm not american. but this man applied for permission to speak in my city and he was denied the right to do so. not even sure if he was allowed to enter the country.

texastmblwd69 · Joined: 25 Sep 2004 Posts: 91 Location: Seoul, South Korea

merlin · Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 6:23 am Post subject:

You see, that was my point:
No one can ignore what President Bush says. I'm sure the people in Falluja would like to, but they just can't imagine their homes or family back.

However, you can ignore what Mr. Reverend has to say. Or you can do something about it. Nothing in between. You can't just take on a person like that half-way.

Think about it this way: Do you want to dedicate a major portion of your life to fighting Mr. Reverned? If you do, then study local ordinances and try to find any law he might be breaking, especially harrasment. Don't open strange mail!!! Invest in a security camera or at least put signs up to make people think you have. "This area monitored by CCTV" Security lights and timed lights would also be a good idea for when you are away.

Or you can just ignore the guy. He obviously want people to engage him in dysfunctional relationships that give him a sense of power he couldn't have if everyone just ignored him. Choosing someone as an enemy often gives that person more power over your life and emotions than they could have had otherwise.

Unfortunately none of us can ignore president Bush. He prepresents too large a portion of the US population and his decisions have too much influence in our daily lives to be ignored, no matter where you live or what country you're from.

apples and oranges, definitely.

Seth · Joined: 05 Feb 2003 Posts: 575 Location: in exile

kev,

do you happen to know the fronsman-cecil family? they live in topeka and were harrassed personally by this fred phelps fellow. they were a good, church going family who happened to speak out against his hatred. unfortunately the father died of a bad epileptic seizure. fred phelps protested at his funeral (yes, at his actual funeral with mourning family members, including myself) and called him a 'f*g lover' and things like that. i was once the boyfriend of thea, his daughter, so i have very personal knowledge of this guy. he's a tried and true 'moral values' kind of guy.

i hope fred phelps burns in hell forever.