Job Discussion Forums

[leaflet]

Where can you save up the most money in? -- after cost of living, tax, etc.?

[Moore]

Don�t know, but Spain is definitely not the place!

[spiral78]

The short answer is, Asia or the Middle East
Cost of living is generally relatively high in most European countries. Please notice qualified statement - a few people will have found sweet deals somewhere. But general questions elicit general answers. It's not impossible to find a great deal somewhere in Europe in terms of salary and cost of living (had one myself in one location) but they are not generally available to newcomers without some connections.

[leaflet]

spiral78: quite aware of that.

What I'm asking is though, comparatively, in which countries did people manage to save up some money? I'm looking to read about some experiences.

[spiral78]

Ok. For what it might be worth, here's my personal experience.

I saved enough in the Czech Republic to take one trip per year somewhere nice, and I lived, you know, frugally on a day-to-day basis, but could still go out to eat and to concerts and things a couple of times per week.
In Luxembourg, I upped the trips to two or three (also low-cost airlines kicked in about that time, so travel in general became cheaper), and lived at about the same level as in Prague - rents are very high in Lux.

In Nederlands, I was paid well and lived and saved and got ahead- but it's terrifically difficult to get legal work there unless you are an EU citizen - and perhaps you are! If so, I would recommend Nederlands.......there are not a lot of jobs available, and the high school positions, though they pay well, are not so desirable as Dutch kids are a rough bunch in general. Uni positions (which I had) are occasionally available, and if you've got an MA in some related field, it's a great way to go. I don't know anything about private language schools in the Netherlands, so can't offer feedback on that.
Don't know whether this will be useful, but here it is!

[Moore]

I know you�re asking for specific information, but spiral78 is right when he/she says that Europe isn�t the place. To qualify this though, I would definitely say that you get better and better deals after the first year or two (and this goes for anywhere): once you know all the setup/scams/good deals and have a reasonable grounding in the language, then better (even non teaching) jobs become available. This can happen almost immediately in Asia though, and so I�m going to say, very unhelpfully, that the best deal I�ve had in a good many years teaching in both Asia and Europe, is Thailand: $15 US per hour in a country where that puts you on a salary par with a middle manager (just watch out for the expat sleazebags though). If you stay in Europe, then don�t expect too much in the first year, just get your head down and learn the language asap and life and salary will improve.

[spiral78]

Yes, that's the point I wanted to make in my original post. It's rare to walk in and get a great job with benefits right away, particularly in Europe. Once you've got your feet on the ground and have made some contacts, you've got a better chance. Unfortunately, many potential EFL teachers can't afford the investment of time before finding the better jobs, particularly those ones who arrive with debt from home.
If you can spend the time and have the funding to do so, it's possible to locate yourself well - but it may not come easy!

[leaflet]

Can you compare western and eastern europe? You said Spain doesn't pay well but I was thinking it should be better than Ukraine although the prices are higher in Spain.

[spiral78]

Do you want general or specific this time? I'll give both from my personal experience, again for whatever that's worth.
Central/Eastern Europe have generally lower wages and lower costs. Translation: you can make enough usually to live all right in the area, and do some limited traveling, but your wages don't translate into any kind of substantial western currency amounts. For example, the average monthly wage in the czech Republic translates to between 500 and 600 USD per month.
So, after one of my years in the Czech Republic, I was able to take a month off in the summer and have ten days in Greece, but that was after living relatively carefully for a year.
You pay more for things in the west, but your wages are also higher. If you forego travel and live frugally, you can save more, obviously.
From Luxemboug and Nederlands, I was able to spend my additional money for more travel: but remember that travel is relatively cheap. For example, ten days in Greece including airfare and hotel ran me about 350 - 450 USD. So, you can see that my savings were around a couple thousand in a year.
BUT - even with a pretty good job, if you've got debt back home, you're always going to be tight. And teaching English is not likely to allow one to save up to buy a house (or even a car) back home in a few years. Again, there are exceptions, but until you've been in the business and have gained some credentials and experience, it's not likely to happen in Europe.
If you're determined, you're going to find a way. But it is not likely to be easy, unless you've got contacts, enough savings to get you started, the education to back you up, and some talent for the job. So, my final advice: go for it - but if you're in a financial bind, entry level positions in Europe are not gonna get you out of it. If that's your case, perhaps one consideration would be to start in Asia, get some training and experience, save some money, and the go with some savings and a solid resume to wherever your personal "ultimate" destination really is.

[NMB]

If you decide to save money elsewhere before trying Western Europe, I would suggest Turkey. You wouldn't save as much as in Asia, but I believe you can save much more than in other Eastern Europe countries. Foreign teachers are typically paid around 3x the average Turkish salary, and life there is not expensive, so you can save quite a bit. Another advantage is that it's very easy and inexpensive to travel to Western Europe from Turkey, particularly Istanbul. While teaching there, I flew to Paris every three months -- 3 hrs, 250 euros. Also, Turkey has a very interesting culture in its own right to explore while you're saving for your ultimate destination.

[naturegirl321]

Hmm, china pays better than europe.

[daily chai]

I'll weigh in with the Asian paradigm. I teach at uni here and take 4 months off a year to live in Europe. I left the Netherlands because the job situation was so bad--I'm riding out the bad economy here in the tropics. It's 28 degrees here now! Hopefully when the dark clouds recede over the Netherlands my partner and I will return. We love it there (but the weather here is fantastic, and pay is great too). I was never able to locate a uni job that Spiral78 mentioned, but I'd like to. Sometimes bad economies mean people go back to school, so perhaps there ARE jobs in NL for English teachers. Anyone?

My partner says that Germany pays teachers better than NL. They certainly have a more robust economy.

[spiral78]

I think the latest stats indicate Nederlands outperforming Germany, in fact....reunification still affecting the Deutchland economically.
If you do return, you might try applying to unis that offer regular courses in English - not necessarily a specific English-as-a-foreign-language department. They hire native teachers sometimes to teach other stuff through the medium of English. One real need is to bring the level of Dutch-style casual English up to a more formal academic level.

[leaflet]

Thanks NMB & daily chai. I'll check out Turkey & Germany. I was actually thinking about Germany for teaching biz English. Does anyone know how active this type of programs are in Germany?