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wombat
Joined: 18 Jun 2004
Posts: 134
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 Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:40 am Post subject: Ownership of your Alien Resident Certificate (ARC) |
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The distinguished gentleman from Canada, Mr. Jason Seeburn, has put to this forum that the ownership of the Alien Resident Certificate (ARC) issued by the relevant authority here in Taiwan is the property of the school or institution through which one is employed. The distinguished gentleman from Canada, Mr. Jason Seeburn, further puts forward the suggestion that the institution or school through which one is employed maintains the right to hold the ARC, and that the individual named on the card has no right to it.
I would like to proffer an argument in reply to the distinguished gentleman from Canada, Mr. Jason Seeburn. Below one can find the legislation pertinent to the argument at hand:
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Immigration Act
Article 26
Aliens, at the age of fourteen and over, who have entered the State for a visit, residence or permanent residence, shall always carry their passports, Alien Resident Certificates, or Alien Permanent Resident Certificates.
The Authority or authorized government employees in compliance with the Act while performing official duties may demand aliens to produce the documents stated in the preceding paragraph.
An English language version of this document can be viewed here:
http://www.buxiban.com/Legislationview.asp?cde=1&subcde=1&itmcde=10 |
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'Regulations Governing the Visiting, Residence, and Permanent Residence of Aliens'.
Article 2
When residing within the territory of ROC, aliens aged 14 and over are required by paragraph 1 of Article 26 of the Act to carry with them passports, Alien Resident Certificates or alien permanent resident certificates.
When the above-mentioned certificates and documents are not available, aliens should carry with them other documents of identification accepted by the Authority.
An English language version of this document can be viewed here:
http://www.buxiban.com/Legislationview.asp?cde=1&subcde=1&itmcde=18 |
I welcome the distinguished gentleman from Canada, Mr. Jason Seeburn, to provide some regulatory evidence of his own that disproves the above. Maybe the kind sir would also like to provide some links to the legislation that confirms his rather outrageous suggestion that the Alien Resident Certificate (ARC) upon which the users picture and personal details are held, is in fact owned by the employer. We shall aait the evidence that you have at hand kind sir.
The distinguished gentleman from �Down Under�, Mr. A. Cute and Furry Wombat |
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Fortigurn
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 390
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 9:44 am Post subject: |
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| Thanks wombat, very useful. Where are you in Taiwan these days? Taipei? |
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Xenophobe
Joined: 11 Nov 2003
Posts: 163
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 5:33 pm Post subject: ARC |
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While my family and I were living in Kaohsiung, there were two occasions that I remember the police coming to our building asking to see an ARC. They were also asking Taiwanese for their IDs as well, to make sure that the address on their IDs matched nthat of their current residence.
Any school that holds your ARC should be told to eat doo doo (and I don't mean doo doo how  ) and die! Taiwanese employers maybe able to pull that crap on Fillipinos and get away with it, but be aware that it is illegal. They can't hold your passport either, though some unscrupulous individuals might try. We always did our own paperwork with the MOFA and FAP because they understood english very well. We also saw that it was done to our satisfaction and that at no time did our documentation fall into unauthorized hands. |
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jason_seeburn
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Posts: 399
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 4:28 am Post subject: Re: Ownership of your Alien Resident Certificate (ARC) |
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| wombat wrote: |
The distinguished gentleman from Canada, Mr. Jason Seeburn, has put to this forum that the ownership of the Alien Resident Certificate (ARC) issued by the relevant authority here in Taiwan is the property of the school or institution through which one is employed. The distinguished gentleman from Canada, Mr. Jason Seeburn, further puts forward the suggestion that the institution or school through which one is employed maintains the right to hold the ARC, and that the individual named on the card has no right to it.
I would like to proffer an argument in reply to the distinguished gentleman from Canada, Mr. Jason Seeburn. Below one can find the legislation pertinent to the argument at hand:
| Quote: |
Immigration Act
Article 26
Aliens, at the age of fourteen and over, who have entered the State for a visit, residence or permanent residence, shall always carry their passports, Alien Resident Certificates, or Alien Permanent Resident Certificates.
The Authority or authorized government employees in compliance with the Act while performing official duties may demand aliens to produce the documents stated in the preceding paragraph.
An English language version of this document can be viewed here:
http://www.buxiban.com/Legislationview.asp?cde=1&subcde=1&itmcde=10 |
| Quote: |
'Regulations Governing the Visiting, Residence, and Permanent Residence of Aliens'.
Article 2
When residing within the territory of ROC, aliens aged 14 and over are required by paragraph 1 of Article 26 of the Act to carry with them passports, Alien Resident Certificates or alien permanent resident certificates.
When the above-mentioned certificates and documents are not available, aliens should carry with them other documents of identification accepted by the Authority.
An English language version of this document can be viewed here:
http://www.buxiban.com/Legislationview.asp?cde=1&subcde=1&itmcde=18 |
I welcome the distinguished gentleman from Canada, Mr. Jason Seeburn, to provide some regulatory evidence of his own that disproves the above. Maybe the kind sir would also like to provide some links to the legislation that confirms his rather outrageous suggestion that the Alien Resident Certificate (ARC) upon which the users picture and personal details are held, is in fact owned by the employer. We shall aait the evidence that you have at hand kind sir.
The distinguished gentleman from �Down Under�, Mr. A. Cute and Furry Wombat |
Distinguished? Dude, you're too funny. Not to get too technical for you or use big words that you won't understand, but what I mean is that when you get an ARC in Taiwan it is not yours. I don't mean the physical piece of laminated paper. I don't know who that belongs to. God maybe. The paper prince? The tree the paper came from? Try to expand your mind a bit and see the big picture. I mean that the ARC is tied to the school you work at. If you didn't work at that school, you could not get an ARC. You need a school. No school, no ARC. This is the same as Korea where you can't get a resident certificate without a school. In both places, it is tied to the school and you need permission to transfer it. That is what I mean. The school may try to keep the card and give you a photocopy (which actually works fine with the police, but you need the original to leave the country or buy a motorbike). You get too involved with picky little things and miss the whole thrust of the conversation. Typical of foreigners on that island. You'll notice if you ever go to Japan that you can actually get a resident working visa without actually having an employer. And you can use it to work anywhere that you like. And you don't need permission to transfer it from one school to another. It belongs to you, as a live document. Not as a piece of paper. Grabbing something and saying it is yours does not, in any civilized society, make it yours, especially if you are dealing with a metaphysical document like an ARC. You might have the piece of paper in your pocket, but the live document and the legalities that it is tied to, are not yours. They belong to the school, and so do you. |
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Fortigurn
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 390
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 4:48 am Post subject: |
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| Seeburn, you're equivocating. Please read wombat's entire post. He demonstrates conclusively that the information you were providing was not only false, but completely uninformed. |
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Xenophobe
Joined: 11 Nov 2003
Posts: 163
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 5:23 am Post subject: |
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You could say the same thing about your passport. It doesn't belong to you, but to the gov't of your nation. They can choose to strip it from you or refuse to issue one to you if they feel so inclined. The ARC is tied to your work visa, which the school sponsors. If you change employers that is reflected on the back of your ARC, which you retain.
Also, if you stay in Taiwan for seven years you are eligible for permanent residency status. Once you have this you don't need to have a sponsor, as you can work for whomever you please. You do however need to retain your ARC for ID purposes.
________________________________________________________
Those who think they know everything, annoy those of us who really do.
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TaoyuanSteve
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 1028
Location: Taoyuan
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 6:17 am Post subject: |
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| Jason, you are completely uninformed on this issue. It's just your ego responding now. The ARC card is produced by the government and you are REQUIRED to carry it. Not a copy; the actual card. Did you read any of the LAWS posted by wombat? Your school had no right to withold your ARC. What they did is not standard procedure. Are you going to say, with your one experince in Taiwan, that it is? You're just arguing because, as you said a while ago, you like to "win" arguments. Truth and reality don't seem to matter. Give your ego a rest and learn. So, you were wrong on this. Big deal. Now you are better prepared if and when you ever come here again. Just let the issue die. The horse died long ago; time to stop kicking. You're not going to be able tell a bunch of Taiwan residents much about the laws affecting us from your location in Toronto. We just know more about this place and its laws, people, language and way of life than you do. |
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wombat
Joined: 18 Jun 2004
Posts: 134
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 8:18 am Post subject: Re: Ownership of your Alien Resident Certificate (ARC) |
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