Job Discussion Forums

[ESL Guru]

Bertrand -

On this one I think you are WRONG!

The people on the 35th or 65th floors have bars on their windows for the same reasons students plagiarize, businessmen pirate DVD's, and politicians lie to get ahead.

The people on the 35th floor are not about to be outdone by someone on the 1st floor who has bars so they simply copy.

This is a copy - copy - copy menatlity place you know.

[China Pete]

si shi si
shi shi shi
shi si shi shi si
si shi shi si shi
si shi si shi si shi si

15 words, yeah 23 characters, but it is 15 words...
But aside fron being a good tongue twister, this really sums up part of the lives of these people... "Do it this way."
X = X something equals something. IF this, THEN it will always be that. IF you sneezed, THEN you have a cold. no maybe. IF youre not for me THEN youre against me. IF,...THEN,...
Like the tongue twister, It is a hard routine to follow, and if anything is off, then it throws off all the rest, and confuses everyone. Thinking outside the box isnt a part of this equasion and very well may be an oposite.

[senor boogie woogie]

Wonderful
Dirty
Good people
Rude people
Good beer
Bad food-Rice
Sexy women
Bad toilets

[Ferne]

I think my two maos' worth would be (to sum up my experience)

"take a rest"

and: the world is either black or white, no shades inbetween (similar to China Pete's if, then observation)

one big difference between China and other countries: in just about every other nation, it is always someone else's fault. Take the US for example (it's Saddam and all the evil in the world), Europe (in Germany, it's Schr�der's government, and it's definitely always the economy), the Arabian countries (it's the whole world against them anyway), Africa (it's the white people and the lack of humanitarian funds). It is always someone else's fault that there are problems. Mostly it's the gossiping neighbor, the government, or some other country, that is causing all the problems.
In China, they know better. At least the people I have met, they didn't rely on someone else to make them happy or guarantee their success. They know damn well that if they don't move their own butts, they won't get anywhere. This is a slow process measured from our standard where time passes by faster, but it is happening. I have met the most autonomous, resourceful, self-reliant people in China.

also...China is discovering dairy products And it is building skyscrapers and business districts fast than it can fill them up. They are somewhat ahead of themselves yet lagging behind. China is kind of always trying to catch up with itself...herself? (Is China male of female?)

These are observations that were mainly influenced by my time in Dalian. The most vivid image of this city, to me, is an old mule pulling his sleeping master on a small cart filled up to the rim with melons (which of course the man is bedded on), in front of this shiny new, magnificent (and empty) work of modern architecture. I don't know if I am right since I didn't travel the entire country, but that to me represents the current China.

I am rambling...but it's fun

[China Pete]

[kathleen]

It seems people were pondering this question long ago

"Elements of the American press helped fan the flames, portraying the Chinese as an unsanitary and dangerous race. An editorial in The Santa Cruz Sentinel in 1879, for example, described the Chinese as "half-human, half-devil, rat-eating, rag-wearing, law-ignoring, Christian-civilization-hating, opium-smoking, labor-degrading, entrail-sucking Celestials."

Iris Chang writing in the NYT About fear of SARS, 5/21/2003

Today I had a party with my class and we played some games. Instead of prizes for people who won, the student in charge had stayed up late writing out specific punishments for all the losers. So, for example, in musical chairs we had 10 losers and one winner. Each of the ten had to do something silly for punishment, such as dance crazily for 2 minutes. It was alot of fun but I commented to my students, to whom I had earlier introduced the concept of cultural literacy, that I found this to be uniquely Chinese behavior, that we would never punish losers at an American party. We would give prizes to the winners. She replied "We don't have any prizes!"

[Ferne]

[Ferne]

...I just thought of something else:

"Maybe we can be friends"

with all the connotations.

[China Pete]

[Tao Burp]

Just had to jump in here: I use to work construction myself, and Pete you're dead on, but I liked to add that the buildings themselves are so poorly built that they start crumbling down almost within a year of completion--this is especially true for buildings on college campuses. It may be argued that it's poor quality of materials, but I think it just poorly built--not smartly built, and there's always houmen and guanxi in the contractor getting the bid. I guess in that later respect it's no different than in the US.

[ESL Guru]

Your on the ground view is just not the same as mine up here.

Building a quality building is counter pruductive. The building is not the object.

Employment for 1.3 billion people is the point. Why use an efficient machine that would replace so many hands that must have at least 10 rmb each day to feed their family?

And what is wrong with buildings falling down so quickly? People need the materials to fix their shacks. Others need work building replacement buildings.

In the US they pave a new road. Then tear it up to install a sewer line. Then pave it againl. Then tear it up to install a telephone line. Then pave it again. Then tear it up again to install a gas line then pave it again. Then tear it up and on and on and on. Always there are a few men doing the work and then at least ten supervisors.

So what is the difference? It is all just welfare with dignity!

Well now we are really off topic. I have some ripe bananas for sale!

[Tao Burp]

Well EG, good point:welfare with dignity, but if those buildings come fallen down and you're in it, it's not going to make much difference if your bananas are ripe or how many friends you have. Seeing so many amputees and mining accidents doesn't give me as much admiration for the welfare of the collective. It's all about the short term results. "Life is short: let's make it look good and get as much as we can from it." Maybe in that lies the national character.

[China Pete]

Yes, Yes, workers are needed to repair one year old buildings,... but then no one has the building repaired...

[Steiner]

It's just cheaper and a heck of a lot easier to tear a building down and build a new one than it is to build it to last forever in the first place. And it keeps everyone looking busy and out of trouble. Labor is just so cheap and plentiful. It would be anti-social to build things to last. People need jobs.

They're about to build a new dorm just outside my window. They've already put up the workers' housing--eight bamboo poles and two plastic tarps.

They DO have maintenance, by the way. That's what tearing down and rebuilding is.

[Steiner]

And my input for the Chinese national character, at least the part I've been most impressed with recently: facade

At least around here. Tao Burp touched on this. Many schools hire teachers not to teach but to improve the school's image. Buildings are behemoth cement deathtraps built in a couple months and then given a flashy mirrored-glass facade. Our campus is brand-new. There are over 40 buildings and the whole place went from rice paddies to completed school in a year and a half. This is the second semester (term) and already the sidewalks have become Chinese Ankle Traps (to their credit, the school is constantly fixing them). We have a football pitch that is purely for appearances. The students may not use it, but the point is that we have a soccer field. There have been two games on it so far. The school put up nets, but the webbing is too large, so the nets don't actually stop a football from passing through when it hits the net. But that's not the point. The point is that there are nets. Schools don't need to install measures to prevent SARS, they need to install measures that look like they will prevent SARS. My school burned sycamore seed pods in the hallways and acknowledged that it isn't effective, but they're covered if anyone accuses them of not trying to prevent SARS.

Facade.

I also have a bit to say about the citizens' lack of feeling personal responsibility for their society and environment, but as Shakespeare has said through Polonius:

My liege, and madam, to expostulate
What majesty should be, what duty is,
Why day is day, night night, and time is time,
Were nothing but to waste night, day, and time.
Therefore, since brevity is the soul of wit,
And tediousness the limbs and outward flourishes,
I will be brief.