Job Discussion Forums

[oiboy]

Just a little conversation I had with the FAO at Web international in Pudong, Shanghai. I'm a fully accredited teacher (teaching license, with a degree and 4 years of experience. I wish all teachers would boycott schools like this. Think of sanctions against South Africa. I'm a Canadian born multi-ethnic teacher. I have no "accent". If you have teaching experience and are WHITE you can apply for a job there.
Actually teaching experience is not important. Send your resume to
[email protected] or [email protected] .
I'm sure you'll get a job. I'm a bit tired of everyone standing there and doing nothing. If you saw a group of skinheads beating an old black lady
would you just stand there and later go for drinks with them. Its the same freaking idea. Things can be done about exposing this crap. If the admins feel like deleting this post, go ahead I said my peace.

If you too are concerned about Web's corporate policies (it is a franchise) feel free to email them at [email protected] or call them at ：021-6447 9090 or fax them at 021-6448 3222

Though most people believe in self-preservation. If it doesn't effect me, why should I bother?




<cut and paste>

上海-香港-上海 says:
Yvonne, what is the status of my job application at Web?
Yvonne says:
i just back on work today
Yvonne says:
let me ask richard in the afternoon
上海-香港-上海 says:
Ok
上海-香港-上海 says:
Did you have a chance to talk with Richard?
Yvonne 明天起换号为13818966272 says:
yes
Yvonne 明天起换号为13818966272 says:
i had
上海-香港-上海 says:
What was the decision?
上海-香港-上海 says:
I will fly to HK tonight. Depending on the job prospects I will make my decision when to return.
上海-香港-上海 says:
So what was the decision?
Yvonne 明天起换号为13818966272 says:
i am sorry that we need teacher form Europe
上海-香港-上海 says:
I see
上海-香港-上海 says:
You mean white teachers
Yvonne 明天起换号为13818966272 says:
yes
上海-香港-上海 says:

Yvonne 明天起换号为13818966272 says:
thanks anyway
上海-香港-上海 says:
You don�t mind if I post this on a message board do you?
上海-香港-上海 says:
our little conversation.
上海-香港-上海 says:

[tradinup]

You don't want to be there anyways. They are not clearly not deserving of your teaching competency. Find a professional company or well-established university and teach where students and admins value learning.

[TEAM_PAPUA]

This kind of practice is just WRONG! Yes, you are right to post this & I completely understand your feelings.
Good luck with your job hunt.

T_P

[Spiderman Too]

I think that racism in the �public arena� should be neither allowed nor tolerated. By �public arena� I mean public service employment, schools, hospitals, cinemas, shopping malls, etc; that is to say, any place that is open to the public.

However, I also think that private companies should be allowed to operate their business as they see fit (subject, of course, to compliance with local laws).

If a company does not want to employ you because you are fat, that is their right.

If a company does not want to employ you because you are short, that is their right.

If a company does not want to employ you because you have dark skin, that is their right.

One thing I like about Asian countries (and China is �my� third) is the priority of pragmatism over political correctness.

Web International are a private company; a language institute, I think, is the most common term.

If they think you�re appearance will deter (paying) students then I suggest they have the right not to employ you.

Last term I worked with a white American man who had a master�s degree in linguistics and had been a language teacher for 10+ years in the States before coming to China.

This fellow had a goatee beard that resembled the beard with which Satan is often depicted.

When applying for jobs for this term, more than one prospective employer asked him whether he would be prepared to shave off his beard. The apparent consensus (among employers) was that his appearance would frighten students.

Here�s an analogy to think about;

Suppose you own a restaurant and advertise for a waiter. One applicant belongs to a religious sect that does not allow nudity at any time, so he/she bathes (showers) while wearing his/her long-john type underwear (and if you know anything European history you won�t be laughing at this scenario). The effect is the person has very strong body odor that even the best cologne will not mask.

You know that this person will scare away your customers if you employ him/her so you decline his/her application.

Have you just discriminated against this person on the basis of his/her religion?

[oiboy]

Perhaps the point I should make is that it has nothing really to do with political correctness. I have never seen students deterred to attending my classes in the past. I have taught at private institutions as well. It�s the preconceived notions at the management level of this operation that piss me off. I think that making a parallel about my skin color and not taking a shower is silly and offensive. You have a choice whether to take a shower , not the skin you are born in. Sure they have a right to not hire me. I also have a right to inform people that they are a bunch of #*@#&*(&#.

[Atlas]

I don't like racism. I believe in EOE.

That said:

Spidey, good post, tell it like it is.

Oi, welcome to China. Sorry about your experience! Probably the first of many. (If you think being white would excuse you from racism here, you would be erroneous).

This practice is quite common here. (So is the glass ceiling for that Chinese worker whose private number you exposed; did it occur to you that ). Singling out one school and one person will not help; Spiderman described the prevailing practice of this ESL industry in China rather well. If you can't handle blatant racism, China is not the place for you. The difference between racism in China and racism in the West is that the Chinese aren't litigous so don' t guard what they say about non-Chinese. If this one bothers you, you are in for a rough ride. You're not in Kansas anymore.

Consider something else--when you find a job, watch for the reduced pay rate too!

If you ask me she did you a favor. She told you to your face what the problem is. I just wanted to say, it's not this one school. It's the industry. Best of luck to you!

[Spiderman Too]

[tradinup]

Spiderman, that may be the case in China but it is not all encompassing. In Canada or the US it is not a private firm's "right" to hire who they choose. They do not have a legal right to discriminate based on specific criteria, such as race or religion. If they want to run a business in said country they must abide by the laws of the land, which puts limitations on their rights.

I'm not familiar with all of the laws in China but they have limitations on their rights as well.

You might want to qualify what kind of right you mean, as there are many. Do business owners have the right to do whatever they want? If we are going to dismiss legalities concerning hiring, why not burn down the neighbouring english schools while we are at it and gain market share? Lines need to be drawn. Legally and morally.

[Atlas]

Psychologically speaking, the biases are in favor of the beautiful people in the west. Attractiveness interacts with perceptions of intelligence, honesty, skill, and all the rest. The system is far from value-free. Can't even guarantee equal pay between the sexes! And racism is alive and well everywhere.

(I'm agin' it, not fer it).

[Spiderman Too]

[oiboy]

I think we are deviating from the point a bit. The aim of my post was to inform and to expose the nature of business practices at this particular school. Sure it goes on else were, but that doesn't make it right. Does it?
Perhaps someone at a corporate level reads these posts and maybe it will dissuade other like minded teachers from applying there.

I know the ramifications of my actions. I'm aware fully that nothing might happen or change. As long as things are out in the open I'm content.

[cj750]

I was once told that I was fired because I look like a vampire and scared the kids....when theis kind of occurence comes down the pike..the best thing to do is just go out and find another job...in China, you are truely responsible for yourself no matter what color you are and no matter how often you play the race card..it will not mater to the Chinese..the facts are that the Chinese have the right to choose the best possible person for the job and that is in their eyes and not in yours...and what is everyone else s,posed to do....agree with you on this board so that you will feel that an injustice has been paid into your race account..and if a whie face or good looks makes a person more attractive to the job market...why wouldnt they incorperate this advantage into their job search and choose companies that seek whatever advantage they have. It is time to stop whinning about the unfair Chinese..of cource thay are unfair and some of the folks here in China came into this country for that very reason...no rules that dictate individual (incl. your boss) choices....if they only hire "pure north American speakers" you need to get over it...

[oiboy]

[struelle]

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[cj750]

What fact are those...the ones you incl. that ID folks that otherwise didnt do anything but comply wtih company standards. And pure NA English...well that is a market ploy and if you can use it than why begrudge others that can...in 3 years you should have learned this little quirk and learned how to get around it. I am not a teacher as such but have to deal with a lot of whinners that go on and on about the Chinese and what really is important in the classroom. And now we have another cop on the board trying to inforce the law of western PC. the Chinese know what they need and if you think that after 3 years you are qualified to tell them that looks doesnt matter in a class room, your as green as a newly arrived grad looking for their first adventure and expecting the world to bend over because of your superior education. Just learn to work it out here and you too can enjoy continued employment, after all they value any white faced foreigner who speaks North American English with or without the sheep skin. China is the great equalizer...it is truely up to you how wll you do....