Job Discussion Forums

[Alec]

Hi all,

I would appreciate some of you giving me advice in regard teaching and living in HK. I have read a number of the topics here on the subject before posting. There are however, a number of things I found puzzling and maybe contradictory.

I read a post stating that unlike many other Asian countries HK does not have a shortage of teachers. Yet, when I read the sales pitch at the recommended http://www.readytolearn.net site they offer the usual plane flight freebies and qualifications similar to other Asian countries i.e. BA and TEFL/CELTA + 1-2 years experience preffered! Hardly full capacity and fierce competition for jobs stuff is it? (I do not mean in regard elite schools).

Many posts here state that much higher qualifications appear the norm including teaching qualifications from native English origins etc. I have no knowledge of NET etc so forgive me if I have the wrong end of the stick!

I currently teach in Thailand, have a marketing BA and TEFL and want to move to earn a decent living primarily for saving money. I plan to move on at the end of the Asian school year in March 2005. I will then have been teaching approx 1 and a half years with school children and a mixture of adult learning thrown in the mix.

I plan to do 1-2 years (if i don't fall in love with and wish to stay) and have discounted Japan because although it is well paid, the standard of living pretty much rules out being able to save a substantial amount. -Yes I am another one of those who is looking at the money primarily, but that does not mean I do not wish to do a good job at the same time.

Any advice in regard if I am able to teach in a primary/elementary school (I'd prefer to stay away from the teacher agency stuff if possible) and the cost of living in ratio to what you earn would be very very much appreciated.

If any of you have experience in teaching in a number of Asian countries then advice on other suitable places would be no doubt be food for thought. I'd really like to get something concrete before it gets too late and turns into a panic!!

Warm thanks,


Al

[Ladybug]

Alec,

I don't mean to be stepping on your toes but I tried to send a resume to the company's given contact address, and it bounced back to me. So, if you're having better luck, let us know.

[once again]

Does it state that those benefits are available for jobs in HK? I can only find a part where it states that in "some Asian countries" those benefits are given.

[Ladybug]

It says ReadytoLearn will pay at least half of your plane ticket, and that it will help you find housing, but you'll have to pay a small fee at first. You can find this under "Salary and Benfits"

[once again]

Depending on the country you are applying for you will either receive a flight ticket from Ready To Learn or you will be asked to buy your own flight ticket and will be reimbursed by your school - 50% after 6 months and the remaining 50% at the end of your contract. If the teacher chooses not to fly back to the point of origin the flight is forfeited.

I can't find any indication that ready to learn are anywhere but in HK, so why would they mention the "depending on which country" part. And if they fire you after five months they may not reimburse your fare. Nowhere can I find that it says they will pay at least half of your ticket. They even state that you will forfeit the flight if you do not return to the point of origin.

It also seems that the website hasn't been updated in the past couple of years..

[quote]A billion people need to learn English by 2002. Ready To Learn has created it's own syllabus, instructional methods and published 120 educational books to serve this market. In addition, we currently operate company owned centres in Hong Kong and are expanding throughout China, as well as Taiwan, Korea and Japan. We have had enormous success with our students and are extremely proud of our record. However, we realise that no single company can meet the huge demand for English Language tutoring. As such, Ready To Learn needs the help of enthusiastic local partners throughout Asia. If you would like more information about franchise opportunities please click here, or email Marina Peyton-Jones or [email protected]



I think you would need to check very carefully first before commiting to anything.

[Ladybug]

I tried TWO of the email addresses listed and NONE of them worked.

[once again]

Did you try the phone number, I saw one on there somewhere?

[Ladybug]

Errr.no, but I'm thinking if the email address doesn't work and the website's most recent date is 2002, then perhaps the phone lnes would have changed or gone out as well?

[Alec]

I used the one example of that particular learning establishment merely because it had been suggested. It was more a post in regard a general teaching and living picture in Hong kong!

If some of you have advice in regard to questions posed in my original posting It would be very much appreciated not only by myself but probably Lady bug too!


Regards


Alec

[AsiaTraveller]

Funny that you should bring up Ready to Learn. Here's part of an e-mail that I sent them on 5 November (sent to three of the e-mail addresses listed on the site). I've not received any response.

While browsing the pages in the Ready to Learn website, I noted some errors in the message from chairwoman and founder Elaine Shannon.

There are two occurrences of "it's" as a possessive pronoun. These should both be "its."

Furthermore,the final paragraph begins with the sentence "A billion people need to learn English by 2002." This should of course be updated to avoid being considered outdated.

I find it strange that a business purporting to teach English would not have corrected such errors in over two years.

[Spinoza]

[Alec]

Many thanks Spinoza,

It certainly gives me some food for thought! Your right in regard the night scene-anywhere will quickly gobble your monthly wages doing that every night.

Thankfully that is not my motivation never being much of a drinker! I also would like to know a little more about S.Korea, I don't know why I just don't fancy Japan, although It sems silly to rule it out completely.

Hong kong just appeals (hence the original post) so hopefully a few more people will add a comment or two in the next few days!


Many thanks again for the input.


Alec

[Ladybug]

Lots of people go to South Korea for the money, and when they leave it's almost like they can't fully let it go. I know so many people who come back because the quality of life is good...they can go to bars etc. and not burn a serious hole in their pocket.

I myself am in my 3rd last year here. But I am planning to move to HK soon.

[ryuro]

Alec,

Here's my toughts for what they're worth. This is based on nearly ten years working in N. Asia (teaching, recruiting and corporate work in Japan, Korea, Taiwan and Mainland China).

This is based on the info you've supplied about yourself and my personal experiences (I don't claim to be an expert). If your primary motivation is stashing away a bit of cash, having a relatively decent lifestyle with time and money to travel in addition to saving... then I'd rank your options as follows (best to worst):

1. Japan. Don't believe all the stories about the ridiculously high cost of living. It is high, but once you get over the 'sticker shock' and learn how to live and shop like the Japanese, it's no big deal. Salaries and working conditions are generally better and the tax is more like 5%. As someone said, so long as your not partying all your money away, Japan will give you more buck for your bang. Getting a TESOL, TEFL, Celta, etc... is generally not worth the cash for Japan- nobody really cares about them in Japan. Also, there are always opportunties to pick up extra cash with privates (you don't need to worry about immigration 'busting you for this')


2. Korea/Taiwan. I'd say this is a toss-up. A lot more cowboy schools in these places and salaries/conditions can vary greatly. Cost of living generally off-sets the lower salaries (in relation to Japan). I've known people who've found some great opportunities in these places. A TESOL, TEFL, Celta definitley seems to carry weight in these places (more than in Japan anyway). Also, in the past immigration was rather draconian about doing work outside your visa (i.e. privates). I don't know how it is now, perhaps someone else with more current information could comment.


3. Hong Kong. Alec, I'm not trying to tell you not to go to Hong Kong, but I have to be honest.. without a teaching degree Hong Kong is probably out of reach for what you want to do (build up some savings). Certainly there are language centers here and people can and do work for them without a teaching degree and make a 'reasonable' amount of money- but it's not nearly as much as you could make WHILE SAVING in places Japan or Korea/Taiwan. By teaching degree I mean having gone through an accredited college or uni teaching program that generally includes a practicum and would certify you to teach English in your home country (you'd be qualified to be a primary or high school English teacher). If you had this, it would change things dramtically and I'd say you could probably move Hong Kong to number 1. But with just a B.A. and TEFL, it'd be a bit rough. A final note, if you do come DEFINITELY GET THE TEFL. Even language centers in Hong Kong will require this in addition to a B.A. Privates are out there, but harder to come by. Remember, by and large Hong Kong is an English speaking territory so the novelty of being a 'native speaker' doesn't carry much weight without the teaching qualifications to go with it.


4. Mainland China. The reason I put this last is that it's still very 'wild west.' If you've a sense of adventure- go for it! But you never know what your actual situation will be until you get there. In my experience mainland China tends to attract those with less experience or fewer qualifications (e.g. a TEFL but no uni/college degree). Living expense are lower, but salaries are DEFINITELY the lowest in N. Asia and working conditions can run the gamet from fantastic to truly horrible.


Again, these observations are based on my personal experiences and the information you gave us about yourself. I should also note they apply to the conversation types of schools or language centers which is, fair to say, where you'd be qualified to teach, for the most part. I'm sure others may offer different opinions and I'm certainly not trying to disuade you from choosing Hong Kong. But if you're serious about saving money and maybe do a littel travel as well- don't discount Japan so quickly.

Good luck in whatever you decide.

Cheers,
ryuro

[Alec]

Hi Ryuro,

Many many thanks for your pertinent reply. I very much appreciate the time it must have taken considering how busy we all are and will heed your advice from such an experienced teacher.

I also appreciated the comments by Lady Bug on South Korea and must admit that contrary to a lot of the whining about it on many forums, two teachers I met here couldn't recommend it highly enough for saving money. Although so much so, I became quickly sceptical (it just couldn't be that well paid) hence my posts wanting a broad outline of the rest of Asia! It does appear that Lady bug can pretty much back it up however with her comments!

I really don't think Hong Kong now sounds a viable option. Bit part language school work at weekends and evenings is not for me and realistically that sounds like the bottom line! I have the TEFL certificate by the way Ryuro for what it's worth!

I will certainly have to look in greater depth at S.Korea and Japan now and from my experience in Thailand (eating with the locals is what I do now) there is no shock for me there in adapting!

Your comments in regard pay in China do surprise me a little, although the rest of your comments appeared pretty much spot on. I have been informed very recently that the pay (especially in the cities such as Shanghai) is very competitive but I'll check it out thoroughly.


Many many thanks again and I hope I may call on you and Lady Bug for some pointers if I decide on your neck of the woods or for other questions I may have in the coming weeks!


Warm regards,


Alec