Job Discussion Forums

taikibansei · Joined: 14 Sep 2004 Posts: 811 Location: Japan

We're unfairly taking too much attention from the OP, so this will be my last--hopefully brief--public word on this.

Nagoyaguy · Joined: 15 May 2003 Posts: 425 Location: Aichi, Japan

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

Recognizing Taiki's sarcasm toward me, I'll let his little jab go, as he meant no harm.

However, Nagoyaguy, I have a question.
I work 11-12 hours a day, which means with commuting time, I am away from my son for about 12-13 hours a day, sometimes 6 days a week. I get home totally exhausted, yet I manage to play with him for 20 minutes before dinner, give him a bath, play some more (including a few minutes with English books), then try to get the little bugger to sleep before 11:30pm. Wasted. Wiped out. Can hardly hold my head up all this time, yet I do my best as a father in those scant hours I'm home.

My wife speaks only intermediate English and is concerned about teaching him her poor grammar skills, yet in those rare moments that I'm home, she tries to speak English as much as possible. I can't even teach my wife any more English for the obvious reasons a teaching spouse has, so don't expect me to go through the ABC's with my son. He WILL pick it up and will fall in line with many who simply lag behind Japanese kids in Japanese skills and lag behind native English speakers in English skills simply because I won't let him become monolingual.

I also want to improve my skills as a teacher, find a new job, and become much more fluent in Japanese. Hmm, that means killing a lot of my home time, which as you can see, is pretty minimal. And, then, there is simply the matter of enjoying life with my wife and son, which means getting out and doing things, not sitting in front of a whiteboard showing him flash cards.

However, with this shortness of time at hand, and the scarcity of TV programs in English for kids his age, just when am I supposed to TEACH him anything? Am I irresponsible or lazy?

Sherri · Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 8:51 am Post subject:

Glenski
It sounds like you are doing a really good job with your son (mine is 17 months by the way). You mentioned the lack of English kids's TV. Do you have access to Skyperfect or cable? The Kids Station as it is called has a lot of English and bilingual programming on it as does a couple of others. It might be worth looking into. My son has recently started getting into the Wiggles, he is dancing up a storm. I am sure you could get a video from Amazon--well worth it! I also owe a big debt to my parents who regularly taped the Disney channel and sent over videos to us.

But in the end you can only do so much. You don't want to make them hate English! If you live in Japan and you send your child to a Japanese school, he will speak Japanese as his first language. The English will come gradually over time, depending on many factors. I've seen kids in bi-cultural relationships with almost no English, spend a year or so in the States (for example) going to highschool and come back speaking near native English.
Sherri

stretch · Joined: 28 Jun 2004 Posts: 59

Looks like my discussion got a nice little debate going on here. '
Sheri, thanks for the input. I'll check that website out. Looks like childcare is way more affordable everywhere but Toronto. (my current home) As for where we are moving to in Japan, still don't know, but rural is the demand.
Not a big fan of big city living in Japan.
As for my kids, we currently speak both languages to them, both her mother (who is nisei/nikei) and myself. We also have a Japanese boarder who speaks only Japanese to them. We try to get the in laws to speak their native tongue to them and I pay an arm and a leg to watch NHK here in Toronto so I can show my kids Okaasan to ishou and Inai Inai Baa! (Good for me too, as I love the sumo coverage..)
As anyone knows, who is a parent, raising kids is difficult in one language. Trying to make sure that they are bilingual in a true sense is probably something that we don't need to truly stress about. It would be nice, but we need to maintain a level of sanity as parents and whatever we do as parents is better than nothing. (like occasionaly letting the tv babysit so you can do the dishes)
Kudos to all the respondents so far, your help is appreciated!

PAULH · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 4672 Location: Western Japan

Sorry

didnt get the time to add my two cents worth

Like Glenski, I am very busy: full time teaching job, part time uni job one day a week, weekend job and doing graduate study on top of it. Usually come home exhausted every night during term. A hour or two before kids go to bed. All this just to tread water and stay ahead financially (wife doesnt work at all) and stay on top of my job.

Neither of my kids spoke English until the age of 5 as they went to Japanese schools. Because of a fairly well paying university job from 2000 I was able to send the oldest one to an international school in Kyoto for four years where the classes were in English and the teacher was an American. Due to a job transfer this year (we had to move out of Kyoto city) she is now age 10 in a Japanese elementary school and fully bilingual. In fact a couple of weeks ago she translated into Japanese for an American teacher who visited the school as part of English activities and who spoke no Japanese. A couple of trips home to see grandma and a month spent with her cousins this year has impressed on her the importance for learning and keeping up with English. Not many ten year olds have had four or five overseas trips already. No such luck for the younger one as he is born and bred in a Japanese environment. He sees himself as a Japanese and is not that interested in learning English right now (though I do read to him) and Im not going to ram it down his throat and make him hate it. Like Taikibansei, 6 months in a foreign country and he will pick it up in no time. No need to rush as he is only 5.

My son is now five, has been to a Japanese private yochien and is now at a public yochien, surrounded by Japanese all day, every day. My wife and I speak to him at home but i am competing with the Go Rangers on TV, his grandmother, teachers and the neigborhood kids and his friends. The only time I get with him is maybe half an hour a night and that is usually bath time.

As for being lazy I think that is a bit of an insult. I work 3 jobs sometimes 6 or 7 days a week, plus studying for a degree when i have time. Im sure you will say chuck the degree, but that will also mean cutting on a financial lifeline too and in a sense cutting my own throat, job and career wise.
I would teach them English if i could but there is just so many hours in the day and I only see them an hour or so at night and in the mornings.

homersimpson · Joined: 14 Feb 2003 Posts: 569 Location: Kagoshima

While you guys trade barbs I was wondering if anyone noticed that some of the foreign teachers here are living Japanese salarymen lives? I'd be far less worried about my child's bilingual abilities and more concerned about not being home. Kids need their dads too - and not just to put food on the table or clothes on their backs.

Gordon · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 5309 Location: Japan

I have to say that when I met Paul and his family, I was quite impressed with his daughter's English. I'd say it sounded as good as any native English speaker at 10.

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

stretch · Joined: 28 Jun 2004 Posts: 59

I'm with Glenski on this one. I even live that lifestyle here presently in Toronto. We want to keep my wife at home to raise the children as long as we can, so that means extra hours for daddy. I work early, come home and go back to work at another job. I do whatever I can to be at home as much as possible, but I much prefer this situation to both of my children being raised by daycare and both of us coming home late from work. I do however respect anyone who does send their kids to daycare, don't get me wrong, it's just not for my wife and I.

Gordon · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 5309 Location: Japan

This is the dilemma all parents make. My work hours may not be up there with many of you Dads, but the graduate courses I'm taking does. With an extra 30-35 hours/week, it takes its toll on the family time. Hopefully after the 2 years, a more stable and financial support will be in place. I don't plan on making Japan my home, this really isn't for me. No major complaints, but I don't have the personality to suit this country and I want a different challenge. Not having a Japanese spouse, i don't have any ties to this country. What was my point here?
Like Stretch, I am happy that we are able to be a one-income family, probably could not do this Canada, like in Japan.

taikibansei · Joined: 14 Sep 2004 Posts: 811 Location: Japan

taikibansei · Joined: 14 Sep 2004 Posts: 811 Location: Japan

Nagoyaguy · Joined: 15 May 2003 Posts: 425 Location: Aichi, Japan

Well, since we ALL work such long hours, let's leave that aside for now. Maybe I am a total *beep*, but for me my son comes first. If I had a job that kept me from him for such long hours (530am to 1100pm for six days a week), I would change jobs and take the financial hit. As it is now, there is always a balance between money and time. The temptation is always there to take just one more class, just a couple hours a week... I dont claim to be the richest guy in Japan, just maybe the happiest.

As I said before, one of the keys to raising bilingual children is the attitude of the non-native speaking spouse. Note that I said "attitude", and not "ability". It seems that the worry is that, for example, the kids will pick up bad habits and bad pronunciation from the non-native speaking parent. Not true at all. Plus, you have to remember that communication with your kids has 3 parts, not 2. First, YOU and your kids. Second, your spouse and your kids. Third, you and your spouse. If only one part is happening, then you may have trouble.

Another big problem I have seen in Japan is the "living with the Japanese in-laws" problem. Big hindrance to having bilingual kids. Grossly generalizing, no chance to create an 'English environment' at home, because home belongs to grandpa and grandma.

Also, be careful about thinking that kids "pick up" languages so fast and so naturally. Children often can APPEAR to be fluent in a language without actually being so. Also, their spoken discourse can often far surprass their written or reading ability. As far as I can recall, Jim Cummings at the University of Toronto researched this and the results were very surprising. Since we have lower expectations of kids' language ability to begin with, it is easier for kids to appear fluent when they may, in fact, not be.

Brooks · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 1369 Location: Sagamihara

I work with a couple of people that have kids:

case #1 - American man with a Japanese wife: she speaks good English and they speak English at home only, for the sake of the son. The American is lazy when it comes to learning Japanese. He is going to change his job and wants to spend more time with his son. He works about 9 hours a day and has to go in on Saturday too.
He works with workaholics that feel they have to work at least 11 hours a day. No point in sitting around waiting for the sempai to leave.

case #2 - American man married to a Taiwanese woman:
things get tough here. They sent the oldest son to Australia so he could improve his English. The son got bullied when he was in junior high in Japan for speaking English. So he refuses to speak English to his father.
Chinese is spoken at home.
The man works a lot. His son goes to an Australian university so he pays for that. His wife works as a translator, but not regularly. I think she does interpreting at courts and for police.