Job Discussion Forums

cafebleu · Joined: 10 Feb 2003 Posts: 404

Anon, don`t let your experiences get you down. I think that what has happened is your Japanese friends DO have commitments, etc, that change their situation and they find it difficult to be direct with foreigners.
Actually they even are not direct with each other, but the difference is there is not the embarrassment factor in dealing with other Japanese.

This `flight` syndrome is not unusual but it does not necessarily mean the Japanese person was only interested in the novelty of a foreign friend for a short time. In some cases that is true. But I have found that in general the Japanese find it hard when they are involved in a friendship with a foreigner as usually they have little prior experience. If they become busy or feel akward about anything, their response is avoidance or ending of communication.

If you are male, then maybe the female friends were hoping for something more. We foreigners are used to having friends of both sexes but to my regret in Japan, I cannot have friends of the opposite sex without a misunderstanding as to where this is leading. In our own countries we can thrash the issue out and sometimes end up with a good friend of the opposite sex instead of a partner. But the Japanese cannot communicate with you in that way - they don`t have the language or you don`t have the language (most foreigners fluent in everyday Japanese like myself are NOT fluent in the language generally, only in basic Japanese).

They also don`t have the understanding of our culture nor do we have the understanding of their culture necessary to be able to foresee when there is a potential communication problem. I think there are genuine Japanese friends to be made - you just have to be aware of the communication levels going on. One of my problems with making friends in Japan is there seems to be a class barrier problem. I have met lovely people who do working class jobs by our definition and that of the Japanese and I am interested in friendship but their feeling seems to be that a teacher, particularly a foreign teacher would be above them.

But keep trying! It is worthwhile when you do make friends here.

macrafferty · Joined: 03 May 2003 Posts: 3

I spent four years in Tokyo and made some of the best friendships of my life. I think there's definately the opportunity there to make friends with the locals just as long as you don't look at it as an opportunity - just look at it the way you would any other friendship in any other country.
On the same token, watch out for those who are only friends with you to practice english. After a while, they are very easy to spot and you can run a mile, but keep an eye open for the genuine people wandering around who would be your friends irregardless of race and language.
Get out there, have a few drinks, have a chat to some of the locals, go to a small local isakaya by yourself with a big smile on your face, you'll soon have company and some free edamame and beer! Suggest a bit of karaoke and you'll suddenly have ten new friends and yourself charging down the road to a late night Karake place! [/img]

macrafferty · Joined: 03 May 2003 Posts: 3

oops ... typo

karaoke place!

Vince · Joined: 05 May 2003 Posts: 559 Location: U.S.

Many Japanese have two kinds of friends: coworkers and former classmates. Beyond that, most friendships are temporary. I think it has to do with the intense layering of obligation in Japanese society. You can't just pop your feet up, smack old Ichiro on the back, and ask him what the **** is up.

I think the psychology discussed in Doi's The Anatomy of Dependence has a lot to do with it too. Doi talks about the Japanese concept of amae, or what might be called mutual emotional dependence. We don't do that the way they do, and I think the absence of it is glaring to them.

Lynn · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 696 Location: in between

TitanicWreck · Joined: 07 May 2003 Posts: 21 Location: Boston

How about dating?
Do westerners find difficulties in finding single people to date in Japan?

Im not sure how it is with western women in Japan; but one male friend working in Japan is going nuts as he cant get a date...Yet another friend tells me there are Japanese women 'throwing themselves' at him, almost as if there were a national fetish there for american men...
Im wondering..he seems to be regugitating a sterotype, but he is an honest person...
I dont know which is true, but both tales intrigued me...

tarn
Boston MA

Sunpower · Joined: 22 Jan 2003 Posts: 256 Location: Taipei, TAIWAN

Dean T · Joined: 13 Feb 2003 Posts: 30

im experiencing the being treated like a pet sydrome i think.

my partner who is gaijin has a 4 year frindship with a japanese man. However when he phones us and says to us to come around, we better visit him or he wot help us.

We couldnt make it too his house when he phoned recently and he then didnt speak to us for 2 weeks... Nevermidn that we told him we couldnt come cos somebody else had arranged to meet us that night.

ruggedtoast · Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 81 Location: tokyo

I wonder if youre complaining about Japanese people or just complaining about people.

Making good friends is difficult, doubly so if you have a language barrier. Many of the gaijin I meet who whine the most about the Japanese being unfriendly are the ones who have the least interest in Japan or learning Japanese.

Of course if you dont speak Japanese youre limiting yourself to seeing people who are english learners and speakers, some of which unfortunately will just want to know you so that they can practise their english and wont want to see you when they dont.

Theres plenty of nice Japanese around.

Romulus · Joined: 17 May 2003 Posts: 18 Location: Japan

For foreigners coming to Japan the language barrier is probably the biggest problem to making and keeping friends.So study ,study and study.
Next many foreigners like to mimic Japanese so they become uninteresting to Japanese people.They like you just the way you are and respect that. So be who you are.If you play a sport like rugby join a rugby club if you are a crooner hook up with a band or chorus etc.etc.
Keeping in touch use the nenga-jo (x-mas cards are expensive)system at the end of year to keep in touch and tell people whats happening in your life ie a new baby,wedding,trip overseas and or e-mail.Put a nice pic on the card of the big event for the year.Your local camera shop can do that for you they can also put your pics on disc so you can e-mail them when you come back from vacation.Speaking of vacation take your friends and students with you arrange a trip and keep it affordable.Ive been doing this for years and we have a wonderful time together.Another thing organize a BBQ and keep it free or ask people to bring a little something. Cook foods that are from your home country or do a theme party.Doing yakiniku is boring they have been there done that before!

Romulus · Joined: 17 May 2003 Posts: 18 Location: Japan

Girlfriends/Boyfriends the fastest way to get them is COOK.Japanese people love food.Most women I know hate to cook so if your having trouble finding a G/F.Try this prepare a dinner invite some friends over and see how they warm to you.If anything you will probably get stuck cooking all the time and have a problem choosing which girl/boy is right for you.

Romance is missing from alot of peoples lives here because they just dont know how to do it or are too shy too show affection.Opening a door,paying a bill vs going dutch shows them you are a man of their dreams.So many women I know have had the go out to dinner and then to the love hotel and then get dropped off that they dont need that.Try a weekend at an onsen with a nice stroll after dinner.

Sex what can I say BE KIND AND GIVING!

Romulus · Joined: 17 May 2003 Posts: 18 Location: Japan

Clueless Gaijins are all over this country at any given time.The one I see alot is the no money sponging gaijin who will make other people pick up the tab for dinner and drinks.Its no wonder that people dont call back a second time.Ive seen people go shopping spend 30,000 yen on a star wars doll go out for drinks with friends and havent the money for a beer.I have only one word for this type MORON!

I have a son who I always remind that COMMON SENSE is king it will get you out of trouble and tell you what to do everytime.So Id say the same thing to everyone.If thats acceptable behaviour back home its probably the same here with a few exceptions.

Visiting people take a small something,friend does you a favor send a quick thank you and send something.Be patient and keep a low tone when discussing problems it will not help the problem to get tough and threaten others it will just make them feel bad.If thats your goal you probably wont last very long over here.

Playboys you might have fun for awhile but pretty soon word gets out and you will put on the weasel blacklist (yes there is one).Im seen some pretty interesting things here the best one was a teacher who was banging every cutie he could get his hands on.I tried to warn him that his neighbors were worried about the number and age of some of his partners but he thought they should mind their business.He ended up knocking two girls up,got the sH*t knocked out of him by a father when he refused to marry his daughter finally was asked to leave the JET program.So listen to what people tell you its for good reasons!

Munchen · Joined: 29 Apr 2003 Posts: 76

I didn't even have to go to Japan to relate my experience. It was right here in the U.S.

I was acquainted with a Japanese girl for a number of years, riding the same bus to and from work in the DC area. She worked for MCI on an evening shift for maybe 8-10 years, but was laid off with the recent problems of Worldcom/MCI. She never really admitted what happened, very closed about it, but was easy to make the assumption.

In the last year or two, she became very friendly towards me, especially when she wanted help with drafting a resume in English, anticipating, I am sure, a layoff. I tried to help her as best I could and suggested she engage the use of a professional translator. After the 9/11 attack, she was afraid to leave her apartment for several days. I met her and accompanied her to the grocery store to help alleviate her fears. Of all places, she was from was Hiroshima. Born long after the A-bomb attack, I can imagine what her feelings may have been like. Undoubtedly had elderly relatives injured or killed in the bomb over Hiroshima.

After MCI, she had brief employment selling furniture and saying, "I'm so happy." Then, presto, in almost no time at all, she was gone, had left to return to Japan permanently after living here over 10 plus years, even having gotten an AA from a local college. Her English wasn't the greatest but was passable.

Although I never dated her as such, I always enjoyed seeing her and assisting her as she was definitely an attractive but lonely person. I probably got to know her as well as I possibly could. What stunned me as she never told me she was returning to Japan for good, say goodbye, leave an address or phone number. I found it out about her departure through a mutual acquaintance.

I have an avid interest in Japan and have read numerous works about Japan and the Japanese, even though I have never been there. In all the writings I have perused, someone said, "Does anyone really understand Japan?" It's an intrigue for sure and I hope to visit one day. One would think in most circumstances here in the US, you would tell a friend you're leaving, say good-bye, probably leave an address and phone number, etc., but in this case, she just vanished!! The manager of her apartment said she just paid her last rent check and left no forwarding address.

Even though she lived here for a number of years, I always felt she was a "Japanese" and had that shroud of the unknown and somehow on the flip side of the coin, knew her but never really knew her, if you catch my drift!! Typical I guess, over the years, she never once addressed me by my first name.

In all, I never had to travel to Japan to have what may be deemed a strange experience with a Japanese "friend," so to speak.

Thanks for reading.

Lynn · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 696 Location: in between

Mr. Kalgukshi · Posted: Fri May 30, 2003 11:48 pm Post subject: Deep Breathing

Offensive and inflammatory terms and comments are not permitted by Forum Rules. I've just deleted one message and I am now locking the thread in order to afford everyone the opportunity for some reflection and deep breathing.