Job Discussion Forums

[Guy Courchesne]

Paulie, do you ever work with youth groups outside the school? I know that Mara Salvatrucha (organized crime gang from LA) is a big problem in El Salvador. I'm curious to now how biug an issue it is there, like in Honduras the other day.

[Ben Round de Bloc]

[moonraven]

Well said, Ben Round.

[Twisting in the Wind]

I think Paulie should and could work with disadvantaged youth of Central America.I think Mara Salvatrucha needs Paulie. Paulie, why don't you volunteer? When your term is up in El Salvador, I think San Pedro Sula could be your next mission.

[moonraven]

Someone--this poster for example--could make a SHORT documentary film about how Paulie became a stain on the pavement preaching to the "maras".

Better to preach to the choir, as they say.

[Paulie2003]

This is Paulie signing in after just crawling lazily off of the beach in Costa Rica - hey, even us fundamentals need a little R anR after all...

As for preaching to the 'mara' - I don't, but there is a young guy teaching at our school who does get involved with that outreach. He's a great guy and I'm certain that he is effective in getting at least some of those guys turned around and headed inthe right direction. Now, sometimes folks like Nicky Cruz come down here (as happened recently) an they really go out to reach 'the lost'...God only knows how necessary it is these days.

Terrible in Honduras...but today our trip through was as peaceful as could be. Even worse in Sumatra I read somewhere this morning. Wow...so many dying in one place at one time...gotta make you think...

Peace to all...and please don't mess up any more of my verses or I'll send Guy after you! He's really been spending far too much time on the sidelines lately, anyway!

[Paulie2003]

You DO know who Nicky Cruz is don't ya?

Ben, I think that should be spelled hypocrazy...right? Please check your spelling again...

[Twisting in the Wind]

Yeah. He converted David Wilkerson.



Right?

[Twisting in the Wind]

[Twisting in the Wind]

Paulie, serious question--

How come you went all the way to CR on a bus to lie on the beach? Why not just go to La Libertad (or isn't that a "nice" beach anymore)? When I was in the region the north coast of Honduras was also nice--lots of picturesque little fishing villages, but maybe Hurricane Mitch changed all that

[moonraven]

Hypocrisy is the correct spelling of the rampant EFL disease.

[moonraven]

I just posted this on another thread, Why are American kept stupid?, but it equally applies here:

Published on Tuesday, December 28, 2004 by CommonDreams.org
Careful Not to Get Too Much Education...Or You Could Turn Liberal
by Dr. Teresa Whitehurst

I've been giving a lot of thought lately to a conversation I overheard at a Starbucks in Nashville last winter. It was a cold and rainy night as I worked away at my laptop, but the comforting aroma of cappuccino kept me going. My comfort was interrupted, however, by two young men who sat down in upholstered chairs near my table. One was talking, the other listening, in what appeared to be an informal college orientation.

"The only trouble with David Lipscomb (a conservative Christian college nearby) is that old man Lipscomb apparently didn't like football. So we don't have a football team, but we have a great faculty."

"But you do have to be careful about one thing," he said more quietly, coming closer and speaking in hushed tones, "My professor-I have this great professor-told me that you have to be careful not to get too much education, because you could lose your foundation, your core values."

The neophyte nodded solemnly, his eyebrows raised with worry.

"If you get a bachelors," the seasoned student reassured, "you'll probably be okay. But my professor said that when you get a master's, and definitely if you go beyond that, you can lose your values. He said that college students have to be watchful because if you get too much education, you could turn LIBERAL. He's seen it happen to a lot of good Christians."

Both young men looked around again to make sure no-one was listening (unfortunately my hearing is excellent, even when I wish it weren't), and shuddered visibly. They shook their heads at the terrifying fate that could befall them.

I found it hard to concentrate after that, my mind returning again and again to one question: "What would happen to higher education in America if this fear of "too much education", and this presumption that liberal views are the devil's snare rather than the logical consequences of exposure to science, philosophy, literature and diversity, became widespread?"

Sadly, it has already happened, and is growing on college campuses across the US. A recent article by Justin Pope, "Conservatives Flip Academic Freedom Debate: Liberal professors are accused of attempting to indoctrinate students. But some teachers say pupils are trying to avoid new ideas." (AP, 12/25/04) describes this anti-liberal movement, weakly disguised as "balancing" their courses with conservative views:

"Leading the movement is Students for Academic Freedom, with chapters on 135 campuses and close ties to David Horowitz, a onetime liberal campus activist turned conservative commentator. The group posts student complaints on its website about alleged episodes of grading bias and unbalanced, anti-American propaganda by professors - often in classes.

"Instructors "need to make students aware of the spectrum of scholarly opinion," Horowitz said. "You can't get a good education if you're only getting half the story."" The "other half" of the story may not be factual, however, but doctrinal. As the young man in Starbucks said just before he and the incoming freshman got up to leave,

"Even at Lipscomb, you have to be careful what you pay attention to. My professor said that a few faculty members might lead you astray without meaning to, by bringing in ideas that aren't biblical. He said that if you're ever taught anything that sounds questionable, you should talk about it with your minister to see if it's right."

Even as a Christian raised in the evangelical tradition, this shocked me. I suppose it shouldn't have; the Southern Baptist Convention recently considered a proposal to urge all parents to pull their children out of public schools to prevent their exposure to "non-biblical ideas" which, as it happens, run rampant in fields like medicine, physics, archeology, literature, philosophy, history, astronomy, psychology, theology-in short, everything.

What will happen to that innovative American spirit if radical "conservatives" have their way with our educational system? How will the US fare in the global marketplace when certain ideas, or entire fields, become off-limits to students who've been indoctrinated to consult their ministers before learning new information?

What will happen to medical research, for instance, if this movement proceeds to its logical conclusion: outlawing the scientific method, a method notorious for not relying on biblical principles?

I fear men like Horowitz because uncensored education is essential to our democracy, our people's well-being and the nation's long-term survival. The "conservative" movement that he's spearheading reminds me of the news reports coming out of Iran in the months just prior to the conservative religious takeover of that country when its professors were warned to present the "correct" views in class.

This movement pretends to be about "balancing" liberal with conservative views, but the reality is a lot uglier than that. As the conversation I overheard suggests, this movement isn't about balance, it's about censorship-or even better, self-censorship that's easily achieved by frightening students with social rejection, hellfire or both. Either way, scholarship is degraded in the process. According to the article, "many educators, while agreeing that students should never feel bullied, worry that they just want to avoid exposure to ideas that challenge their core beliefs - an essential part of education. Some also fear that teachers will shy away from sensitive topics or fend off criticism by "balancing" their syllabuses with opposing viewpoints, even if they represent inferior scholarship."

Whether through self-censorship or junk education, our country's children are paying the price for the political aggression of the far right. Robert Frost once wrote, "Education is the ability listen to almost anything without losing your temper."

Tempers are short in today's radical "conservative" America, and the emboldened radical right is in no mood to listen to anyone.

Dr. Teresa Whitehurst is a clinical psychologist, author of Jesus on Parenting (2004) and coauthor of The Nonviolent Christian Parent (2004). She offers parenting workshops, holds discussion groups on Nonviolent Christianity, and writes the column, "Democracy, Faith and Values: Because You Shouldn't Have to Choose Just One", which is posted on her website, wwww.JesusontheFamily.org

[shuize]

If someone is planning on attending a bible college, they obviously aren't too interested in getting a well rounded education.

Having said that though, I do think there is some merit in the argument that tenured professors should not be allowed to spew garbage and then mark down student's who don't buy into their prof's political ideology.

Let me guess, the counter argument is: It's not garbage when it matches my ideology.

[Twisting in the Wind]

The overall shift and mood of the country to an unthinking patriotism and conservatism is of great concern to me. Compared to the current president,my prior most villainous president, NIXON, was a LIBERAL, as well as a third rate burglar. Do we have, in Bush, a physical manifestation of 40 years of stored-up bad karma for Vietnam and other follies? Is this reincarnation of Goldwater our punishment for past national sins, such as Arbenz, Allende et al?

As an educated person of faith, it's disheartening to hear statements quoted by the college students from the article above. Truth is truth. What have they to be so afraid of?

There has been this pernicious "conservatising" of the country since Bush's first term ( I would use the words "election" and re-election," but since he was never properly "elected" in the first place, he cannot be said to have been re elected, now, can he? )

I notice it most in the churches, where it used to be okay to define yourself as a Democrat or Republican. Now, if you identify with the Democratic party you are looked at as some kind of freakoid. Children enrolled in so-called Christian schools are derided and taunted on the playground because they say their parents voted for Kerry. Makes you kinda wonder what kind of Christan "values" their parents are passing along to their little darlings in an atmosphere ruled by a man for whom "values" is pre-eminent in his platform.

[Twisting in the Wind]