Job Discussion Forums

[badtyndale]

[peggiescott]

badtyndale,

Yes, I did. I even looked it up and interpreted the definition to mean "Smugly, with overtones of na na na na na."

It was probably unnessary, glad you're here to keep me in line. Thanks.

Peggie

[badtyndale]

Damned contracts!

I can't actually remember if mine mentioned EC's - I don't think it did, then again, who cares!

I liked the recent topic about 'contracts' - not worth the paper they're written on indeed!

Anyway, I think the OP was getting put upon in his case - somewhat different from your 'obligations'... hope you have fun with them. Keep up the good work.

All together now:
"You have to do English Corner, na na na na na..."

[Brian Caulfield]

I agree it is unprofessional work . If all the participants had the same level English than it would be great . Other places call it free talking . The problem is that many of the participants have no idea what is going on . If I was to run these things as I wanted to I would assess the people first and then put them in groups of similar abiltiy and then give each group a topic they could handle. But this takes time and if I am not being paid , why do it ?

[Roger]

Peggyscott,
thanks for your smug description of me! I am one of those who have to be tricked into attending those stupid eCs by hook and by crook and I would break my contact if it imposed on me such an unfair duty!

I question the wisdom of my foreign employers in demanding that I do a job they cannot do by themselves!

A kindergarten principal with zero English skills introduced 'english Corners' in her public kindergarten - and it was run by Chinese English teachers. Well, my lady, since I am a criminal on the run: what's more wrong - "teachers running an English Corner with thre-tofive year olds" or someone avoiding it?
And let me add, those kindergarten pupils seemed to me far more mentally alert than those adults you are surrounded with at traditional English Corners!

[7969]

[dazzaa26]

Well, for me an English Corner gives the teacher a bit of freedom/even more freedom to do what he or she would like to talk about. Pick a few topics or type up a few short articles to lead on a few questions, make a quiz or plan a fact finding mission about the country or city you are in.

Stay in the light and have fun. Dont let the anti -English corner people get you down, see it more as a chance to develop your skills.

[JDYoung]

Demo Lessons
Whenever I was hiring in the non-teaching world I tried to include, as part of the hiring process, an opportunity to see the applicant actually do something as close as possible to what their job with me would be. I didn't expect to pay them and they didn't expect to be paid. It was an expected part of the hiring process. That's how I see a "demo" lesson in this field. If it's feasible for both parties I would expect it to be done. In fact, I would think less of an employer who didn't demand one.

English Corner
I guess I must be among the few who enjoy doing "English Corner". It was among those "other duties as required" stuff as I wasn't separately paid for it. Of course the total amount of work required for those "other duties" should be spelled out in the contract but beyond that who cares what it is and why the school is doing it? I just pick an event - holiday from either my culture or theirs, or a custom - again mine or theirs. I then do a bit of an intro - maybe 10 minutes max and then go into question/answer or moderator mode, depending on how the group "feels" and let them go to it. I learn a lot at these things.

[Roger]

Pay for demo lessons:

It is my opinion that trial lessons must be paid. Why not pay? Ah, you want to assess someone's ability to "teach English"? But, are YOU qualified to assess me? I tell you most |Chinese employers are totally incompetent. And, within a half hour you can't teach anything useful that an assessor can judge conclusively. What's more, Chinese employers never inform you of what individual level students have, nor what they have been acquiring until the day of your trial lesson. For a trial lesson to really yield useful insights on the job applicant's suitability the candidate should observe the subject teacher's classes for a couple of times.
And the assessors should have a |MOD|E|RN OUTLOOK on teaching techniques and not be burdened by idiosyncratic |Chinese fixed ideas.
Again, I do such lessons for money, and often I find that I merely replace another teacher who may be sick or on unpaid leave. Last time I was being assessed by a Chinese principal who spoke not a single word of English, yet she was full of praise after the lesson. I had given her rowdy students an earful of behavior instructions that went down with them very effectively. Apparently knowing how to discipline |CHinese ruffian students is just as helpful as having teaching skills.

[7969]

regarding english corner... i enjoyed it as well. but when students show up late, or don't bother to speak (it becomes a story telling session on my part) then why bother? my english is rather good, i don't need the practise. isn't english corner a place for students to relax more and be able to speak more freely outside of the constrictions of the classroom? there's always seemed to be a core of good students who showed up for english corner where i worked in the past, but as i mentioned previously, always late. they're inconveniencing me by not showing up on time.....

demo lessons? who can say what these are always intended for? maybe i've been brought in for a free class, maybe the real teacher is absent, maybe its actually a demo as they really need a teacher. to be fair, i did a one week demo session at a kids school in taiwan. they seriously wanted to hire me but after the 4 days i just didnt want the job. small town, small kids.... not my cup of tea. i was supposed to be paid, but as i left on the last day without telling whether or not i'd take the job i never expected to be paid, and i wasn't. looking back, i might have liked that job.

roger has a point tho, a teacher's competence cannot be evaluated in the least, in a one lesson period. first of all, the book is thrust upon you one minute, you're teaching the lesson the next. what's the usefulness of that? and who is qualified to assess? some 23 year old who can nary speak english themselves and who has no experience? this happens.... i'm glad i never got the jobs in the few other places i did demos..... and i will be paid next time or i just wont do them.

another school in taiwan (run by an englishman) actually paid me to come to the other side of the island to visit his school. we spent several hours talking and had lunch together, and then decided he couldn't offer me what i needed. but i wasn't out of pocket any money and it was a pleasurable experience. no demo done either.

i agree that a demo is a good idea, but only if the applicant is allowed to be prepared for it. this doesnt seem to happen too often. and cover their expenses as well. that's fair in my mind.

[badtyndale]

OK. In the serious world of academia it is quite normal for a prospective employee to demonstrate the quality of their candidature via a formal presentation. This usually takes place prior to an interview proper and may even determine whether an interview actually takes place. The candidate is informed well in advance (i.e. when shortlisted and invited to attend the interview process) and details regarding the nature and format of the procedure are provided, often with specific criteria included which the candidate should address. Usually, the whole process, including feedback and criticism, is allotted 15 - 20 minutes. Similar procedures for job applicants are standard in other fields as well.

In the case of the OP, it was required that he 'demonstrate' a 2 hour class for no pay nor any expenses. This is palpably unacceptable.

[7969]

[badtyndale]

Yes, indeed; let us not forget where we are! Heaven forfend that the FT ever be informed (or treated as a professional).

Notwithstanding current market proclivities, the circumstances described by the OP were somewhat exploitative, I feel. Whilst it may be foolhardy to expect any hiring procedures to approach the standards considered acceptable by western practitioners, the onus remains upon the FT to ensure that they are not merely being taken advantage of.

[tofuman]

601,

I agree that you are being conned. It is most likely a promotional event to recruit new students. I find this a bad sign as to the ethics and sneakiness of your employers. I would insist on being paid. If they refuse, DO NOT take the job. That they would even try a scam like this would give me serious pause.

I have done more than fifty English corners. I no longer answer or never did answer the following types of questions:

*Grammar
*"Where are you from?"
*Invasive personal questions and personal questions in general. I remind them that this is an opportunity to practice English, not a time to learn all about me.
*Specific questions about fields of which I have no knowledge (duh).


You should be the one asking the questions, not them. Do not submit to interrogation by locals.

People who I perceive are not listening to me, but continue to chatter on, I turn them off. Some people want to showcase their English skills and find that hijacking an English corner is a good way to do it. Individuals without listening skills are not unusual. Insist that they answer your questions or stop talking. True hijackers can be difficult to manage. Just walk away from them. A small group will follow and the hijacker will be left with his own group.

Identify argumentative and quarrelsome types and ignore them. You may have to tell them that you prefer not talking with them. Do not engage them, ignore them. Break eye contact but look for a glint of light on steel. Hope your gungfu serves you well, unless you prefer going like a lamb to the slaughter. Remember that some of these people despise foreigners and resent your presence, even though they may speak English.

I've made a few enemies at the English corner, but I'm the only white-faced regular at two of them for over a year.

English corner can be great, but only if you set boundaries and talk about what you want, not what they want.

[limits601]

Well from everyones input, and all the input was very useful, i chose not to take the position or even do the english corner and demo class. The pay was 8000 a month in Hangzhou with no apartment or return flights or meals. Absolulty nothing so me renting an apartment, buys appliances and getting set up and then living (living in Hangzhou isnt cheap) i would be saving next to nothing so the deal wasnt good.

Thanks for all your input, advice and stories. This forum is the most valuable thing for me next to my passport . . and residency permit . . and foreign experts certificate :+)

Thanks !