Job Discussion Forums

[Guest]

Jo, who are we to say whether or not your marriage was built to last? Your heart may grow fonder or it may forget who he is. That of course is down to you. Temptation may be greater in some places than others, also depends on the friends you make and how well you adapt to being away from home. Do you trust him enough to leave him alone? Is it yourself that you are doubting or is it him? What other people think should not matter. Do some soul searching. I don't think you'll find the answers here.

[Guest]

I must be the worst person for reading the thread after posting the reply. I agree with everything that Baby Predator said, so much so that I seem to have written almost the same thing.

[kimo]

Josephine, whatever you decide I wish you good luck, good health and good fortune.

However, from my own experience, I would never advise someone to voluntarily leave his/her mate. And the younger one is, even stronger would I be against it. As others have remarked experience has taught me that it doesn't work. I have been single and done it, far too often, and married once and watched as the marriage dissolved and I became more powerless from afar to prevent it.

True, some people do it successfully, usually because they are mature and consciously make a choice to make the being separated work. Others, even older people, especially a good number of distinguished gentlemen here in China, consciously choose to have a little fun while here. What happens to their relationships with their spouses back home I don't know.

If it were me and my spouse had only one year to finish his/her degree and was willing to go with me the next year, I would start work on a TESOL, CELTA, Master's Degree or some other qualification that might actually assist me to find a better position. It would also give me a year to start learning the language of my target country, another leg up in landing a job sometimes. And it would give me more time with my spouse so that I could form a stronger bond with him/her in the formative years of our hoped-for, lifelong relationship. If I were young and could have the prescience to look forward I would like to know that I am young and have more time ahead of me than I will ever know what to do with. I don't need to rush. Perhaps, I am a romantic, but I would enjoy my mate, the love of my life, as a young person. I could never get those years back.

[Josephine]

Hi again,

I knew eventually I'd annoy someone, or vice versa.

Of course I know that TEFL is different than joining the military. Give me a break. But look at it from a parent's perspective. Reference thread about parents if necessary. If you think all your kid wants is a little adventure abroad before coming home and having the stereotypical normal American life, TEFL and the military both offer said adventure.

You could argue that I've failed to convince people that I am seriously considering this as a career and not just something interesting to do for a while, and it would be valid; I've apparently failed to convince you guys as well. But I would thank everyone not to make assumptions; people keep telling me not to rush into it and to give it some thought, but unless there's some mind-reading technology out there of which I am not aware, nobody, least of all a group of complete strangers, knows what I am or am not thinking about or how long I have been doing so. Newbie does not ALWAYS mean hasty and stupid, no matter what some think.

Thanks to those with more constructive replies.

J.

[scot47]

Let me see. You ask a question but will only accept the answer that you want to hear. You are asking us to tell you that what you have already decided is the best way forward for you. Any other answers are brushed off by you as "not constructive."

I rest my case.

[kimo]

As I was finishing reading your last post, Josephine, I was formulating a similar post to Scot47's. When we use the word "rush" it does not necessarily mean hasty I feel. But if you wish, maybe we could say you don't need to do it now because we, or some of us anyway, believe long distance relationships (ldrs) generally don't work. If you reread the posts by those who wrote of their own experiences with ldrs, you will see that almost all have failed in them. One guy did mention he was successful in staying with his true love for a year in an ldr, but only after several failed ldrs. I think I would ask him why he feels he succeeded this last time around. Maybe, he was more determined. But, as well as him, she HAD to be too.

But, if you have made up your mind, and it seems you have and really were just looking for some sort of validation to what you have already decided, go ahead. Be a great teacher. Have a great experience. And if you really want him, I hope you get him.

And remember, if you want to be a teacher, don't take offense to different points of view.

[baby predator]

Just a thought, and not directed at anyone in particular, but why to we characterize all relationships which come to an end as "failed"? Are the only successful relationships/marriages the ones that make it to the "death us do part" bit?

I suppose I'd grudgingly agree that that might be the ideal towards which we should aim, but all my ldrs came to an end eventually and I don't consider that any of them failed. We fell out of love, went our separate ways, found other loves blah blah blah but the relationships themselves were worth the effort.

None of these were marriages, true, but I still stick to my earlier point that the best way to screw up any relationship is by giving up your own ambitions. If my dear old mum had gone to university like she wanted and my pa had travelled the world, she wouldn't spend all her time nagging him and he wouldn't spend so much time in the shed.

Mind you, maybe then I'd never have been born.... Hmmmmm OK. So the moral is: stay with your man so that your kids can do all the things you never got the chance to.

[kimo]

Baby Predator, you must be talking to me. I get your point about failed. Let's just say relationships that didn't last as long as expected. Usually people marry with an aim to part upon death.

I like your point about not giving up one's own dreams. No one told her to do that.

------

It's 3 pm in Beijing with a dark, dark sky. Strange indeed.

[Josephine]

Just one more post, as it seems the more I say, the bigger a hole I dig.

If you reference my first post, I was asking for advice on how to conduct a long-distance relationship. I was not asking whether or not you guys think I should start one. So if I reacted poorly to those who said "don't do it", it's because they're answering a question that wasn't asked.

I stand by my assertion that you guys need to stop making assumptions about the circumstances, age, qualifications, mindset, etc. of those who post, although I realize that asking people to behave well on the internet is asking too much.

But since you all know everything, I suppose there's no need for me to continue explaining my thoughts. You guys have effectively told me that TEFL is only suited to those who don't have any affection for anyone in their home country; no wonder you come across as such a miserable lot.

Thanks to those who were constructive. By this I mean those who answered the question that was asked, for better or worse, and didn't presume anything or pass judgment.

J.

[xnihil]

Hey Josie,
just a warning, it seems like you're getting pulled into the negative swirl that is online forum browsing. My advice (that I'm trying to follow myself) is to focus only on those who give you relevent comments. Remember, those negative comments are really just pixels on a screen!

Back to the original topic: As I've said before, I'm in a very similar situation. My wife will most likely not be coming with me as I go abroad for two years. Our only form of contact will be e-mail and the occasional holiday visit. I'm running through a series of feelings because of this. Guilt (I feel like I'm abandoning her) resentment (why won't she drop everything to be with me?) excitement ( a whole new world!) and also feeling anticipation at the test our relationship is going to be put through.

I feel confident that we'll be coming through on the other side stronger in our relationship. That doesn't mean I would do this if there were any other way. We tried going together: she was miserable We tried staying here: I was miserable.

The fact is that sometimes the one you love has different goals than you do. It doesn't shake the foundation of your love, however.

I think the biggest danger for us is falling prey to conventional thinking. Most people have a fixed idea of what a marriage looks like. It certainly doesn't include long periods of time apart. (it also includes a whole series of assumptions about lifestyle that I, and you, I suspect, reject).

On the other hand, I get the impression (apologies to the exceptions to the rule) that most people posting onthis web have a completely different set of assumptions about life goals. Ones that may not gel with lifelong commitment. Or, if they do want that, they are still stuck in the conventional, picket fence type.

I think the challenges that many people mention in here are completely accurate. But all you need to do is keep them in mind. Don't let them dissuade you from your path. I almost did that, have been doing that for a year and it doesn't work.

One question you need to seriously ask yourself, though: Is there any part of you that is looking at leaving the country as a way to escape your relationship? Maybe it is just a small part, buried deep inside your mind but if it is there at all, I think you need to address that before you make your desicion.

If your marriage is strong, nothing can break it. If there are problems, you can't fix them by running away.

[kimo]

On May 19th, Josephine wrote,

[ESL Guru]

Josey:

Maybe you will not listen to any sound advice. But I will try anyway -

"For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and shall cleave to his wife and the two shall become one flesh. So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together let no man separate." Matt 19:5,6

If you disobey God you deserve whatever bad happens to you and if you come to China, it certainly will.

The Preacher has spoken, long live the Preacher! For more go to the China off topic forum.

[johnslat]

By popular demand ( well, OK - one person asked me to ) I'm going to relate the strange but true story of a TEFOL ( kind of ) " widower ". I've been involved in a " Significant Other " relationship for ( Lordy ) 16 years now. I met my S.O., Maggie Dew, right here in Riyadh ( that legendary city of love and romance ) when I was teaching an evening course in American Literature ( University of Maryland Extension Program ) for the American Community Services people here. She was a nurse at the time and, far and away, the best student in the class. When the course was finished, we kept in touch and even began dating here, which is a little dangerous, since if the religious police catch you out with anyone except your lawful spouse, you're in big trouble. But that just added to the adventure of it all. Well, I left here in '87 and for the next 6 years, Maggie and I kept in touch only by mail ( and not e-mail, either ). I returned here in ;90 and then in '93 I left again, went to the States and called Maggie up.
She invited me out to New Mexico and we've been together - though often apart - ever since. It's not easy, being away from her for 10 1/2 months of the year, as I have been since 1997. But our relationship has lasted and just gotten better, as time goes by ( hmm, I think we've got a song there ). I suggested our getting married once ( we're both two-time losers in that department, twice divorced ) but Maggie asked: " If it's not broken, why fix it? " and I've yet to come up with a good rebuttal to that. Maggie's getting her PhD in archaeology now and I'm heading home, for good, inshallah, in July. I don't know if our experience will be of much help to anyone in their own specific situations. After all, we're both pretty much geezers now, not too often in the grip of hot-blooded, uncontrollable lust ( well, the summers still get pretty hot ). But we've been together for 10 years now, being apart much of that time, yet still committed to each other and still in love. How did we do it? Darned if I know. But I suspect that when you do find the right person, distance and time don't really matter. Even when you're not with them, they're always with you.
Regards,
John