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2 over lee · Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 6:45 pm Post subject:

The only Mongolians I�ve ever seen were in my evenings of drinkery on San Li Tun and Mao Ming Nan lu, they were all female.

Quite a shame, but that�s what the seem o be doing if the�re in China

Lyov · Joined: 24 Jul 2004 Posts: 43

Herman,

I have a different opinion on several points. Firstly I've never been to Erdenet so I don't know for sure but I find UB a wonderful city. I have heard other foreigners complaining about the things they can't find but I personally think they don't know how to look. I have found everything I've looked for. I thought I would finally be stumped on finding cat food, (because Mongolians don't like the animal) but I found it tucked away. The shear number of different kinds of restaurants here is amazing. I can't believe that Erdenet is more modern that UB. UB is the absolute center of all things Mongolian, if it happens at all it happens in UB. How long did you spend in Erdenet? It could possibly be more beautiful and peaceful than UB, that I could believe. Daxan is supposed to be much more beautiful than UB. UB is not a pretty city.

Lyov · Joined: 24 Jul 2004 Posts: 43

A few more things to say.

About seeing Nadaam. It might be worth noting that Nadaam in UB is really crowded but they hold Nadaams everywhere and you can get much closer to the action in a smaller town.
The differences between Han and Mongols is an interesting and complex question. I havn't been here long enough to make a good analysis but a few things. Firstly Mongolia has been influenced by Russia much more than China and that really shows in most everything. Mongolians are very independent and prize strength above the Chinese. Mongolians can be very stubborn. They are very loyal people and tend to make long friendships. They are very hospitable and open but they will expect the same thing from you.
One more thing to Blackguy-in-asia. Mongolians don't like Africans. They like hiphop and rap alot, maybe more than America does but they don't like Black People. The reason is historical. Black people are very foreign to Mongols but in 1996 97 around then two Men from Cameroon came to Mongolian and were scamming people and were put in jail. It was later found that one of the men had aids and had had sex with 5 different woman. This started a massive (on a mongolian scale) aids scare. They pretty much got it under control but aids in Mongolia was put directly on the heads of black people. It goes to show you what a few people can do in a small population.
I'm certainly not saying don't go there, but just realize that some prejudice will be thrown your way and just know why. If someone is giving you a hard time just cut right to the point, bring up the incident and express how rediculious it is to connect you to it. They usually listen to reason.
I take alot of grief for being white in Mongolia, its a love/hate thing. I have a Mongolian girlfriend and they really don't like that. People frequently yell mean things at me when I am walking with my girl and if I stopped to talk to them there would be a fight, and I would loose.
So just be warned thats all. In so many ways the Mongols are very small and petty people and they will remember a wrong done to them for a long time.

Best of luck to you

~Lyov

Jangar · Joined: 19 Aug 2004 Posts: 6

I apologize to Herman if I said something that hurt your feelings and I'm glad that you had a pleasant experience in Mongolia. The prejudice against Chinese is very deeply rooted and has a strong hold of our mentality. But that doesn't necessarily mean that every Chinese person is treated nastily. On the contrary, as everywhere else, everyone is judged by their merits. I interact with Chinese people everyday and treat them no different than others. My prejudice only prevails when it comes to broader policital, social, and economic issues such as marriage, Chinese laborers/immigrants in Mongolia, and the relationship between the 2 countries.

Lyov, your observation about the blacks in Mongolia was very interesting. I read about the Cameroon AIDS incident in the news back then. It was a really unfortunate event that left a negative effect on people's minds, considering how little or no interaction we've had with blacks. But I'd like to disagree with your "Mongolians don't like blacks" comment. It can be said "Mongolians don't like foreigners no matter what color they are if the foreigners are acting shady." Just as in Herman's case, it all depends on the individual. Despite being Chinese, he had a wonderful experience. So we can't say just because someone is black, he will be met with a negative reaction from the public. I know that Millie, a black lady runs a restaurant in UB and saw a black family from St. Louis on a TV show, having a very positive experience in the countryside. My boyfriend is black and we talk about moving to UB in the near future. In the beginning, I'm pretty sure we will get curious stares and mixed reactions on the streets of UB. Anyone who's married to or in a relationship with a foreigner is bound to be judged, so just gotta be tough and survive. Wink

herman · Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 6:56 am Post subject:

Jangar, that is all right, you did not offend me. I quite understand this animosity towards China in general, after all we have history to add to the factor. Also I don't think many people like the Chinese government anyway, mainland Han Chinese included. Thank you nonetheless for explaining Very Happy

Lyov, I've never been to Erdenet, it is just what I heard. One of my students was from Darkhan and had lived in Erdenet. What I've said is only a repetition of what he told me. As to Darkhan I remember him saying that it is a center town for an large industrial area. Well, since neither of us as been to these places, maybe Jangar as a Mongolian could tell us what she knows? If she has not been to Erdenet or Darkhan, well then, Lyov, maybe you should take a trip up to both cities. After all, you are in Mongolia Smile

By the way, have you visited UB2 yet? I didn't know how to respond to the name when my colleagues said we were going there (it was a stopover trip before going to Terelj). I felt like we were heading to a fictional town. Wink

Lyov · Joined: 24 Jul 2004 Posts: 43

I agree with the statement that Mongolians don't like shady foreigners and for good reason. As far as the black thing, I have asked my students after they said negative comments against black people if they didn't like Black people and they've always agreed. Maybe the phrasing of my question biased the answer I don't know for sure. I is a strange situation to see Mongols hip-hop dancing in time to popular American Rap videos then turn around and and be prejudice against them. Its just my experience among the people i've met. I've heard a large number of comments that would be construed as racist in America. I also lived with a Mongolian in America and he was blatently antagonistic to some of my African friends. But I think as more foreigners come to Mongolia hopefully the Mongolian impression will change for the better.
I certainly would like to go to Erdenet and Dakhan. I've never heard of UB2, is it Ulan Baatar Xoep? Or is UB2 the translated name, i'll ask my students. I plan on going to lake Hoszgol next summer, anyone been there?

herman · Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 5:48 pm Post subject: UB2

UB2 is simply UB2, even on the Mongolian road signs, that's why it was so funny yet strange Wink

I think it is more of a vacation place. I'm not sure since we only stopped by to pick someone up. Your Mongolian colleagues or students would know (or other foreigners who have lived in Mongolia for a while).

Madmaxola · Joined: 04 Jul 2004 Posts: 238

Usually nobody can really tell Chinese/korean/japanese apart (try out that website.... forgot the address)

But I can usually tell a mongolian! Pretty wild looking, they definately have the most "square" faces....I find the girls reallz good looking

Travel Zen · Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2004 12:01 am Post subject:

It would be sad to see such a people fall for the same hate and prejudice (read ignorance) that plagues so many countries.

I've always thought of the Mongolians as open-minded people.

Your hip-hopping students sound like teen-agers....what they think changes with the moons alignment Confused

I'm still going to salsa in Ulaan Bataar with pretty mongolian girls.... Wink

Feanor · Joined: 15 Nov 2004 Posts: 3

What are the teaching conditions in Mongolia? What kind of "degree" or "certificate" do you need to teach there, and once you have one can you teach only in the public sector or private or both? what are the living costs like? from what you have said it is not so much a modern country. what did you mean by this do you mean entertainment wise? what is the countryside like? any trees? mountains?

I am a Canadian seeking a peaceful place to teach english (not so modern i mean). I do not need all the distactions of "moderness" so to speak.
I have no BA or MA or AA, but I will be taking CELTA in june of next year, then heading off to wherever a door opens.
I am open minded and have realised that I will never find out how teaching is in another country and how people will react to me as a person if i never go.

thanks for the imput everyone! anyone.......... Wink

Feanor

Inner_Mongolian · Joined: 03 Jan 2005 Posts: 2

Hello, I'm from Inner Mongolia(Chinese occupied Southern Mongolia), I think it's a suitable question to me to answer. Mongolians are a sub-race of the Mongoloid. Mongolians, Siberian natives, and Mongoloid-looking Turkic groups belong to Siberian or Northern Mongoloid sub-race which is a bit different from other Mongoloid sub-races. A typically Mongolian is easily distinguished from Chinese people. Usually, they are stronger and taller, and have a broader face and a higher cheekbone than the average Chinese(I mean, it's Northern Chinese, Southern Chinese are another more different sub-race of the Mongoloid). However, I don't think it's easy to find out a Mongolian among the crowd when you are walking along a street of Inner Mongolia, because, firstly, Chinese immagrants are far larger than Mongolian population in today's Inner Mongolia, especially in cities. secondly, These Chinese immagrants came from the neighbor areas of Inner Mongolia, where ancient nomadic people from Mongolia ever succeed to conquer chinese people for several times, they probably have a great influence on modern Chinese people, so it's not surpised to find some chinese with a typical Mongolian-looking face in reality.

Koreans seem look more similar with Mongolians than other asians. some theories suggested that Koreans have an origin from Manchuria, Mongolia or Siberia, it's possible that Mongolians and Koreans share the common ancestors in part many thousand years ago.

Inner_Mongolian · Joined: 03 Jan 2005 Posts: 2

Some pics from Inner Mongolia

Lyov · Joined: 24 Jul 2004 Posts: 43

Hi,

I will try to answer your question about living costs and what not. Even in Mongolia it is still possible to be trapped in the middle of moderinity. I live in the direct heart of UB and there you can forget how scarcly populated Mongolia really is. The countryside has basically nothing, no trees, no fences, not much at all just the occasional Ger. There are mountains and forests but far from UB, I haven't been there yet. If you want a city experience but less modern then I would suggest a different city than UB. Dakhan is very nice and Erdenet too. The pay is less there, or so I've heard. Right now in UB I make around 14,000 tg. an hour, around $13 US. Its a good job. It is sometimes difficult to find an appartment and many foreigners end up staying in a guesthouse for a few months, that usually costs around $10 a night for a private room. You can find an appartment for as little as $100 a month but you'll need someone to help you with that. Schools will do it sometimes. I've heard about schools that provide living but its very rare. Getting a Visa is no problem but you might want to read the travel blogs about Mongolia on this site for some good warnings about that.

Is it really true that there are no horses in Inner Mongolia?

Travel Zen · Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 9:31 am Post subject:

Very nice pics, Inner Mongolian.

I like the culture and dress. I'm moving my travels to China in a few weeks, closer to the target. Mongolia will be the icing on the cake. Can't wait.

Jus how much is a horse in Mongolia?

Granada Girl · Joined: 25 Oct 2004 Posts: 40 Location: Guizhou, China

Hey Everyone!

Great discussion! I've enjoyed reading it! I'm heading to Mongolia in June with the Peace Corps, hopefully to live in a Ger!! What's the cost of living there? can you give me a few examples of things? Is it really -40F six months of the year?? yikes!!!!