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TaoyuanSteve
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 1028
Location: Taoyuan
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 Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 5:24 am Post subject: |
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| Aristotle wrote: |
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It is possible that things are done differently in different areas, as we all know that there are lots of such inconsistencies here in Taiwan.
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Couldn't agree more.
Some people have their work address annotated on the back of the card sometimes on the front.
Some chain schools are able to get just the name of the franchise put on the ARC with no street address, allowing teachers to work at any franchise. Often the CLA gets confused and puts the wrong information on the card. Spelling and "wrong number" mistakes are common.
However any of these variations could be used as an excuse to extort bribes from your employer and have you deported if your employer doesn't pay.
Welcome to Taiwan
A. |
So some ARC's have the employer's address on them? I was under the impression that all ARCs had this information on them, until I checked my own last night and found only the trade name. Perhaps I believed they did have addresses because I had seen others that had had this information on them?
The lack of an address on my card doesn't allow me to work at any branch of my school because every branch has a different registered name.
Kait: out of curiosity, did your card list your sponsoring branch's address, name or both? How did you know the school you're at isn't the one on your card?
Write in to let us know how things turn out. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| kait wrote: |
| Well, it turns out that my ARC states I work at a different Hess branch than the place I show up everyday and act like a professional/clown. So, could I get in trouble for this? It seems like I was hiding in the closet to protect my employer more than to protect myself. Right? |
Technically yes you could get into trouble as what you are doing is illegal. The reality is somewhat different though. It is pretty obvious to the authorities that the school is the one in the wrong in these cases and not you. The school pays a fine and gets a slap on the wrist. Despite some peoples claims to the contrary, I have never heard a first hand account of anyone who has been deported for being caught in your situation. There are however plenty of first hand accounts of people in positions such as yours getting off either scott free or after paying a fine, signing a letter of wrongdoing, and being required to move on and find legal work.
Having said that, if I were you I would want to be fully legal. Put pressure on the head office of the organization that you work for to make you legal. They can either put the name of the school that you are working at on your ARC, or transfer you to another school. If they don�t take this problem seriously then I would suggest that you find another job. And don�t worry about any penalty or repercussions for breaking your contract under these circumstances, as the ball is in your court in this regard.
Now, for some house cleaning.
| Aristotle wrote: |
| Some people have their work address annotated on the back of the card sometimes on the front. |
Any information on the back of your card is an amendment or change to the information on the front. It is not a place for additional information about your employer.
| Aristotle wrote: |
| Some chain schools are able to get just the name of the franchise put on the ARC with no street address, allowing teachers to work at any franchise. |
This is incorrect.
Firstly, your employers address should not be listed on your ARC. It is redundant information as your ARC should contain the employers registered name, which can be cross checked for an address anyway.
You cannot have the generic Chinese name for a school as your employer on your ARC. You must have the specific name of the actual business (buxiban) that you are actually working at.
If you work for a chain school, this Chinese name must be the registered Chinese trading name of the location that you are actually working at. Chain schools must register each location, be it a branch or franchise school, separately as they are seen as separate entities. Therefore it is incorrect to suggest that you can get your ARC in any one name and then be entitled to work at more than one location.
Theoretically you can get more than one employer added to your ARC, so my advice if you are working for a chain school that asks you to work at more than one location is to request that they get the names of both schools added to your ARC to ensure that you are totally legal.
| Aristotle wrote: |
| However any of these variations could be used as an excuse to extort bribes from your employer� |
How?
| Aristotle wrote: |
| Some estimates put the number of teachers deported up as high as 200 to 300 last year. |
Whose estimates? Yours? Your phoney secret society? Please provide a link to a reputable source that even comes close to backing up this claim. It�s clear to everyone who lives here in Taiwan that this is nonsense, but for those of whom are not here, I am sure that they would appreciate some sort of evidence of this. Surely you have a source for this and didn�t just pluck the number out of the air, so let�s see it.
Honestly, the number of foreign teachers deported from Taiwan each year is likely to be less than 10 or 20 at the most. All of these teachers were working illegally, and the vast majority were working without ARC�s, on student visas, or had overstayed. Despite Aristotles claims to the contrary, there is not a single substantiated case of ANY teacher with a work permit and ARC being deported for working a second job. Most certainly there are lots of teachers that get into strife as far as fines and warnings for doing this, but I have never seen any case of someone being deported for this.
| Aristotle wrote: |
| All the deportation documents I saw for people had valid ARC information. |
Bollocks!! You have been saying this forever, but have never once supported this claim, nor has anyone ever posted on any of the Taiwan message boards that I am aware of that they were deported for working at second school on the their work permit and ARC.
| Aristotle wrote: |
| People working without ARC's are too difficult to catch. |
Ridiculous! Are the teachers working without ARC�s somehow invisible when the police come to do a school inspection. The only thing that you can be sure of is that if the police come to do an inspection, the teachers working without any papers would be fined and deported immeadiately. The teachers with an ARC from another employer would be reprimanded and sent on their way.
| Aristotle wrote: |
| It is much easier for the Taiwan government to issue fraudulent ARC's then deport people for unknowingly having them. |
How exactly are the ARC�s fraudulent?
| Aristotle wrote: |
| Foreign teachers are a huge source of revenue in the form of bribes and extortion for government officials. |
How so? I have never known any foreign teacher to have paid a single cent in bribes to work here legally. What would be a reason that a legal teacher would need to pay a bribe anyway?
I don�t know a lot of truly illegal teachers, but as Aristotle continues to advocate working here illegally, maybe he does have exposure to more of the type of people who need to pay bribes. This is just one more reason to work legally I would think!
| Aristotle wrote: |
| Your rights and the rule of law are not their concern unless you are willing to pay them for it. |
Crap! In all facets of our working lives FREE mediation is available from the authorities. |
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Aristotle
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1388
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:57 am Post subject: |
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| Contrary to what the "my Taiwan right or wrong" group may want to believe about Taiwan. The government on Taiwan does not overlook laws or regulations in favor of respect for a foreigner's rights. If you want rule of law or a fair implementation of the law on Taiwan you must offer up money or quanxi. When Taiwan makes a error in regard to issues that pertain to their foreign residents, it is an error on the side of racism, prejudice and injustice without exception. |
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TaoyuanSteve
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 1028
Location: Taoyuan
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| Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 5:02 am Post subject: |
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My position is probably somewhere in between Clark and Aristotle's. I don't believe Taiwan is as corrupt as Aristotle believes anymore, yet it is certainly not a country where rule of law predominates. It is not a legal, contract driven society like the ones we came from. However, I do believe in working with at least one ARC sponsor because of the benefits of legal residence (I've mentioned them many times before. I don't want to do so here as well). I think being somewhat legal is as good as being legal in Taiwan. Clark is right about people with no ARC at all being deported when found working. People I have met have had that happen to them. Yet in 25 + years of operation, the place where I work has never had an ARC sponsored teacher deported for working in multiple locations or at off-site classes. A further point you may want to consider, Kait. Out in our neck of the woods (Taoyuan), things are done quite a bit differently than in Taipei. I have found 100% legitimacy to be very hard to achieve out here. I haven't been completely legal where I've been working, and I won't be in my new job I start in the new year either. I'll venture to say it really doesn't matter here. Still, if the arrangement with your school makes you uneasy, or you just want a good excuse to quit  , time to move on. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Aristotle wrote: |
| If you want rule of law or a fair implementation of the law on Taiwan you must offer up money or quanxi. When Taiwan makes a error in regard to issues that pertain to their foreign residents, it is an error on the side of racism, prejudice and injustice without exception. |
That has not been my personal experience. I can state first hand that when I was in trouble with an employer, the government departments that I contacted for help were all very helpful and I didn't pay a cent. I am based in Taipei and I do agree with Taoyuan Steve that things are somewhat different out of the big cities.
So Aristotle. Are you going to actually answer the questions that I have asked or will you continue to ignore them? |
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